With the help of Lindsay Bohanske, our Tour & Tasting Specialist and Certified Cicerone, we run through some of the most-asked questions we hear from guests at the brewery. In this episode, you’ll find the answer to questions like: is it OK for cold beer to warm up and then get cooled down again?; what is the difference between an ale and a lager?; should I put a lemon slice in my Allagash White?; and many, many more!
With the help of Lindsay Bohanske, our Tour & Tasting Specialist and Certified Cicerone, we run through some of the most-asked questions we hear from guests at the brewery. In this episode, you’ll find the answer to questions like: is it OK for cold beer to warm up and then get cooled down again?; what is the difference between an ale and a lager?; should I put a lemon slice in my Allagash White?; and many, many more!
This is From Maine, With Love an Allagash Brewing podcast where we talk about beer, our community here in Maine and things that generally make us happy. So in this episode, I'm talking to Lindsay, Bosky otherwise known as elbow here, the brewery, and she's a certified cicerone. So she knows quite a bit about beer. And so what we're gonna answer is questions that we get asked all the time. Should you put a slice of lemon on your Ali? Gosh, white. How do you get Allagash white to taste the same from a bottle as it does on draft. Should you age your barley wines in your trunk? And the most asked question, is it okay for a cold beer to warm up and then get cooled down again before you drink it? So open a beer. If you have one and hope you enjoy. Hi, Lindsay. Hello. Hello.
Lindsay Bohanske:Thanks for having me on the show.
Brett Willis:Oh, thank you for coming. I'm I'm really excited about this episode because we're gonna be talking about some of the most frequently asked questions that we get here at the blue and Lindsay having toured many, many, a person, uh, through all, uh, in her day. She has a great way to answer these questions that I think will make it very clear for kind of no matter your, uh, level of beer knowledge. So I'm excited. Yeah,
Lindsay Bohanske:It's fun. Yeah. I've spent a lot of time behind the bar at the tasting room. I've spent a lot of time touring people around it's, you know, we get a lot of questions, a lot of really valid questions cuz uh, frankly our beers are really kind of unique and, and fun. Um, and you know, we have a really fantastic business. So there's lots to ask lots to talk about.
Brett Willis:Yes. Uh, but before we get into that, I want to ask one question. Uh, Lindsay, what is your go-to weekend activity here in Maine?
Lindsay Bohanske:Oh boy. Um, anything outside<laugh> I would say probably yeah. That and eating<laugh> yep. Yep. There's a lot to eat. Um, yeah. I love to cook and I love to, to hang out at home and, and cook and get outside as much as possible. So in the, you know, this time of year when it's cold, um, we do a lot of, I, you know, hiking out in the woods. We do snowshoeing ice skating if we can. It's a lot of fun.
Brett Willis:Love it. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I feel like, Ooh, I didn't want you to turn it on me. I didn't really think about it. Uh, I think Willard beach is, is definitely a good one. That's but yeah, it's great. Dog friendly. My dog chip loves to chase a ball. It is his life's journey to find a ball and to chase the ball. Uh, so that's always very fun, uh, to get out on beaches. Nice. Um, alright. To dig in the, the question of the day we're, we're taking the biggest one first, because this is the one that we get the most frequently at the brewery, and it's a very valid question and I'm excited that we get to answer it. So I think I've said that a couple times. I'm sorry. I am actually, uh, can a beer get cold and then warm up again without getting skunked or oxidized or ruined in some way?
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah. Uh, yeah, definitely. Our number one most asked question, especially in the tasting room because we store all of our beer cold and so sometimes people panic like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna be able to keep this cold. What should I do? What can I do? Can I still buy this beer? I have to drive back to New York. I have to, you know, I'm, I'm getting on a flight and um, it comes up all the time. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and beer is best, kept cold. That's why we do it. And so the, the longer you can keep beer cold the better, but it does not hurt a beer to go from cold to room temperature, and then back again, and our brew master, um, Jason is actually really vocal about this issue. He's very passionate about it. He wants to keep our beer cold because really that's what's best for the beer. And that negligible warmup is dwarfed by the best practice of keeping it cold in the first place. So it's much, much, much better for us to store it cold, keep it cold for as long as possible. And then for somebody to get it in their car, drive back to wherever they're going, have it, you know, hit room temperature, then put it back in their fridge. Totally fine. Doesn't hurt the beer at all. So don't panic. Beer can get cold and then warm up and then get cold again.<laugh>
Brett Willis:That's awesome. So I I'd love to add a little bit of nuance to the answer too. And so I guess, Lindsay, could you explain why it's not necessarily good for a beer to get too hot though?
Lindsay Bohanske:Sure. Yeah. So, um, and I don't know if I just to address your comment about skunking cuz I think that's the concern is that sure, sure. That if cold beer gets warm, it'll get skunky and it's not actually the temperature that does any skunking to beer it's light that makes beer skunky. And so, because we keep our beer either in dark brown glass bottles or in a can you can't really, it's very hard for it to get skunky. Uh, and it's the light actually interacting with the hops in beer that makes it skunky. And so, you know, I can say without a doubt, the temperature has nothing to do and you know, it's better to keep beer cold because it'll keep the beer from it. It'll keep the beer tasting freshest the longest mm-hmm<affirmative>. So if you, if you keep your beer at warm temperatures for a long time, say like in a really hot car for a week, like accidentally you leave a case of beer in the car for a week mm-hmm<affirmative><affirmative> I've done it before it's happened. Oops
Brett Willis:<laugh> yeah.
Lindsay Bohanske:<laugh> then you know that it just, it makes the beer age faster. So the warmer a beer sits at and for longer and longer temperatures, it makes the beer go bad quicker. And it it's nothing that's gonna make you sick or anything. It's just, the beer will just not taste as fresh it'll increase how quickly the beer off oxidizes at warmer temperatures and that oxygen makes beer taste papery. It tastes like cardboard. Um, it just doesn't taste fresh. And you know, you can sort of when you taste a beer and you can just, it doesn't taste bright anymore. It just kind of tastes maybe a little bit more malty than you would expect. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, sometimes you get like notes of like Sherry and like bees wax, um, like a waxy character to a beer that's never a good sign. So the, the moral of the story is, you know, keep your beer cold if you can. But room temperature really for short amounts of time are not a big deal. A lot of times I'll take my beer home from a brewery it'll come out of our Curia room, which is 50 degrees. You know, if I'm, I'm taking some beer to take home and then I'll let it sit, you know, for a week in my entryway<laugh> which frankly is pretty cold in Maine<laugh>, but, and then put it in my fridge, you know, it's, it's no problem, but I wouldn't want it to sit in, you know, a warm place for a long period of time at all. So totally,
Brett Willis:Totally. And like kind of a fun fact there too on the side is that our lab, uh, at the brewery actually uses the, we have a warm fridge to simulate age because basically that oxygenation will happen over time. Kind of if it's sitting at room temperature. So by putting a little bit of extra heat on it, it actually makes it, it simulates as if the beer has been sitting out for longer. So that's how we can test, um, how well the beer is holding up, you know, even before waiting, you know, two months or whatever in the market or something like that.
Lindsay Bohanske:So yeah. Good point. It's very fun.
Brett Willis:Really good point. But yeah. So
Lindsay Bohanske:Thank you, stress about it.
Brett Willis:Yeah, no stress
Lindsay Bohanske:<laugh>, some beers are okay to age. You know, there are definitely certain style that you can let age for longer. Um, and there are certain beer styles that you really wanna drink as fresh as possible. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and most of our beers have a six month shelf life, but some of our beers have even up to a year or year plus sometimes our, some of our wild and sour beers, you can age for two or three years and they change and get, you know, a little bit different, but they still taste. Um, and you know, I've had some of our beers from gosh, like 20 10, 20 12, some of the wild and sour beers that are still tasting great, as long as they're stored properly. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, but you know, for something like white or river trip, that's something that you really want to drink as fresh as possible. So, you know, it just depends on the beer, uh, too, but keep it cold is the big thing. Keep it cold or keep it at seller temperatures, at least
Brett Willis:If you're going to age it,
Lindsay Bohanske:If you're going to age it. Right. Yeah. You definitely don't want<laugh> to age barley wine in a car for a week just to speed up the oxidation process. You don't wanna do it. Don't do that.
Brett Willis:Yeah. Um, awesome. So the next question that is probably one of the more prevalent ones is, uh, so what our biggest selling beers, Allagash white, they'll just sell whip beer about 80% of what we sell. And so people ask, well, what else should I try if I love Allagash white? What other beers? I mean, I think it, I think Lindsay, for this one, it could be our beers. I think it could be other beers potentially even too, but I'd say let's start with our beers, but how do you normally answer this
Lindsay Bohanske:Question? It's tough cuz I think that people like white for different reasons. Mm. So I think the fact that it's really light and drinkable and refreshing, I think that that's one of the main reasons people really like it. And so sometimes, you know, I'll, I'll recommend somebody try a beer we make called like fine acre, which has those kind of light crisp notes. But then you also get the Belgian yeast character that you get from white, but it's still really drinkable and refreshing if you really like, if people really like love Belgian flavor, then I'll always recommend triple, which is quite a bit stronger than white. But if you're looking for that kind of bright refreshing, and, but also a little bit stronger, a little bit sweeter, um, triple is always a great place to go. That's another one of our year round beers. And if you like hops too, cuz some people, you know, beer drinkers like lots of different things, if you like kind of hoppy citrusy notes, then river trip is also so a really great option for people to try. But if you're not into hops, I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend that. But um, those would be and 16 counties too. People, people typically who like white, they really enjoy 16 counties. You still get that kind of citrusy almost a little bit like Belgian east character as well, but just a little bit different, a little bit more of a golden nail pale vibe to it. Very approachable. It's really nice, easy drink and beer as well. So as far as our beers are concerned, those are the ones that I usually recommend to people. Totally. If they're looking for something in our family<laugh> yeah. Of beers and then, you know, you find some really cool, you know, Belgian style beers around, um, Oxo is some makes some of my favorite other beers, like light bright, refreshing. They don't really do a wit beer, but they make a lot of saisons and uh, those are great. And if you like wit beers, you probably like saisons too. So I don't know. That's lots different beers out there.
Brett Willis:If you can ask, give someone something to ask for, uh, then that might help them too. If like, oh, I love Allagash white. What other, their beers are kind of like all white? Um,
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah. I think flavor wise, you know, that's where I always start right with, if you don't know something about a style, then what I always recommend people or I'll ask people I'll delve into it. Like, well, what flavors about it? Do you like what taste is like grabbing you? And for white, you know, you got these kind of bright, um, citrus notes, you get kind of a nice, uh, lemony wheat character. You get a hint of spice to it, but it's still dry, which I think is part of the reason why people beloved white so much is it's not sweet at all. You really get this nice, refreshing, crisp, finish, um, little bit fuller bodied. So for me, it's like for people who are looking for something, that's kind of like Allagash White, I would sort of start with those flavor notes. Like I like something that's light in citrusy.
Brett Willis:The next question that I have that I think we get quite a bit, um, here at Allagash is what's your IPA.
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah. This comes up all the time, especially in the tasting room is I like IPAs, what should I get? Or what's your IPA mm-hmm<affirmative> and right now, at least we don't really do a classic IPA. You know, most of our beers are inspired by Belgian brewing, which really is more of an ethos for us than like a strict rule. And I think that's actually part of the reason why we like to think of it in Bel ways, because in Belgium, there's actually very few styles, you know, it's a lot more about, you know, what ingredients you have on hand and kind of creating unique recipes and um, not really ascribing to any particular, one thing mm-hmm<affirmative> and I think that's sort of the driving force behind a lot of the decisions we make about brewing is like, you know, well, do we think it's gonna taste good?<laugh> yeah. You know<laugh> yeah. And so, you know, far as IPA is concerned, we do play around a lot with hops and, you know, primarily the flavor component that you're getting in an IPA is coming from hops. So, you know, we, you know, river trip is a nice Belgian pale, a definitely has dry hop character. You're getting those kind of bright citrus and nectarine and sort of stone fruit hop character. Um, but then we're also releasing sometimes we do release IPAs. Yeah. In fact, we're gonna be releasing an IPA really soon called swiftly, which is, um, Aaron Nelson. Who's one of our sales reps. It was his pilot idea. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so all of our, you know, core brands, really any, any beer we release. Yeah. Most of them even start with an employee idea, you know, wanna brew this beer and I want it to taste like this and it was swiftly, it was a really cool idea that Aaron had where he wanted this beer to have these really rich hop tones, especially like walking as if you're walking through a coniferous forest, which I thought was so like such an awesome description, but you know, so yeah, we, we don't really always have an IPA necessarily, but we always have something that's a little bit more hop forward that people can reach for. And I think, you know, we're, we'll continue to play with IPAs in the future. Um, but right now, at least as far as our year round core brands are concerned and river trip is definitely our most top forward option and it's delicious. So awesome. If you're looking for something, something hobby
Brett Willis:And you actually, we had this conversation, I think like a while ago, but the talking about how triple, uh, actually is a great, uh, sort of choice for a lot of IPA fans. And I feel like, I guess maybe explaining why you make that connection.
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah. Triple is one of those beers. I think it appeals to a lot of people<laugh>. Yeah. Uh, because first of all, it's phenomenal. It's one of our most awarded beers and it's just really, really, really good. It's super well balanced mm-hmm<affirmative>. But I think especially for people who like kind of the slightly sweeter, more double IPA kind of beer triple is really nice because you get a little bit of those sweeter notes. You know, it's not a hop kind of fruitiness that you're getting in triple it's actually coming from our yeast mm-hmm<affirmative>. But I think it sort of appeals to people that like those kind of fruity hop notes that you're getting right now and a lot of hop four beers, especially because you know, a lot of hop four beers right now are not particularly bitter mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, it's not like the mid nineties, early two thousands when the bitterness war was raging in craft beer. Yeah. Now it's more about, you know, aromas and flavors of hops<affirmative> and I think in triple you get a lot of those kind of similar fruity characteristics where you're getting notes of like passion, fruit and tropical notes that you can sometimes find in a lot of really cool hops. Hmm. So I think for, for people who like slightly sweeter, slightly stronger IPAs, triple, it just like hits all the notes that you're looking for. And you know, it's still really, really drinkable, which is, which is really nice. And a lot of people don't really know what a triple is, but it's actually a style of beer mm-hmm<affirmative> and, uh, so if you're out there and you like double IPAs, go find a triple it's great. You love it.
Brett Willis:There you go. Um, will this actually leads into another, uh, a beer that's as closely related to triple and, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask the question and it's gonna also be the answer. So how do you pronounce Curio? That's how we pronounce it. This is
Lindsay Bohanske:Yep. There it is
Brett Willis:Curio, which don't honestly don't feel bad if you've ever seen this beer. It's spelled C U R I E U X. And you were going to say the French way, it would probably more like cure-ee-ew, but we say cure-ee-oh for whatever reason. And uh, that's just how we've said it, uh, since it was first made. Yeah.
Lindsay Bohanske:Such a cool story. Yeah. That beer and the whole reason behind the naming is really because Rob just was so enamored with this beer. So we ended up with some excess, triple from a run because our bottles delivery for triple got, you know, bundled, for some reason we didn't get bottles. And at the time we didn't keg triple. So we were kind of screwed. We needed to figure out what to do with it. And Rob ended up having these empty bourbon barrels that he was gonna use for some other project mm-hmm<affirmative> and he just sort of threw up his hands and say, you know what, this is gonna be weird, but let's put'em in the barrels as we sort of have to<laugh>. And uh, you know, he came back a couple days later and tasted it and he was just, he was floored by how good it was and just thought it was so curious that, you know, this wonderful beer turned out to be so delicious. And so Curio was born.
Brett Willis:There you go. It means curious. That's curious. Yeah. Curious. So what makes a beer Belgian style?
Lindsay Bohanske:Hmm. Yeah, I sort of talked about this a little bit before, but it's the way we think about at least our beers or the inspiration for our beers is sort of, you know, like I said, brewing with Belgian east is the first thing mm-hmm<affirmative>. So a lot of our beers were using our house kind of Belgian yeast, which, you know, back in the day, cultures of yeast would've been taken from Belgium now, yeast banks, bank, you know, hundreds of different yeast from all over the world, but these particular sort of farmhouse yeast that, uh, would have been developed over years and years and years and used mostly on really small scale brewing, uh, over time, commercial breweries started using them as well. And they really have these unique flavors. And depending on how you use them, there's a ton of different strains too. It's not just one thing, but Bel and yeast tend to give off more fruity and spicy flavors, especially the warmer that they ferment. And so you can actually control a lot of the fermentation. A lot of the flavor you're getting from Belgian yeasts by just controlling the temperature of the fermentation. So for example, even with Allagash white, you know, we don't let it get too warm when we ferment it. So you really kind of that that Belgian ye character is more refined. Mm-hmm, it's more allowing the wheat and the ki out orange peel and some of the other flavors to kind of come together and you really get this amazing balance of flavors that way mm-hmm but you also definitely get those kind of fruity Belgian yeast notes in a little, little bit of like a spicy note as well from the yeast. So it's all about balance, but Belgian inspired brewing, you know, it can have a lot of different, there are definitely some specific Belgian styles. For example, the triple that's a really kind of classic Trappist style, literally brewed by monks. And we make our own of interpretation of that style. A Wit beer is also a specific style of brewing. That's been around for hundreds of years and almost went away at one point, but kind of got brought back. Um, so those are also, you know, those, there are specific styles of beer that really have Belgian roots, but then, you know, anytime you brew with a Belgian yeast who are gonna get those Belgian characteristics mm-hmm<affirmative>. So I think that's sort of where we land with, you know, being, being Belgian<laugh> it's like we sort of, we, we use it loosely, you know, it's more of a, like I said, it's more of an ethos than it really is in a guiding light than it really is anything. One thing.
Brett Willis:Totally. And I've, I have a wild card, this isn't even on our list, but I thought of it in, I want to hear your off the cuff answer. What's the difference between an ale and a lager.
Lindsay Bohanske:That's such a great question. And really it's a simple answer because ails and lagers are two, the two categories really of beer mm-hmm,<affirmative> all, almost all beers fall into either an ale, a category or a LAGR, uh, category. And it it's the different types of yeast that either prefer colder temperatures, which are in the case of lagers or warmer temperatures. And when I say colder, it's like, you know, between 40 and 50 degrees versus, you know, 60 to 80 degrees, depending on the yeast mm-hmm<affirmative> so all beers fall. One of those categories, most of the beers we do at, at Allagash would fall under ale category, but you know, sometimes I'll hear people say like, oh, I don't really like ales.
Brett Willis:Yeah.<laugh>
Lindsay Bohanske:It's like, that's a, that's like a huge, that's like most beers<laugh> yeah. Or at least half. Yeah. Um, the thing and, or, or, or I'll also hear people say, I don't like lagers. Right. And there's such a huge range in lagers too, just because you're using a lager yeast doesn't mean you can't also use lots of hops or really beautiful chocolate malts or things that you can pull together. So, you know, beer has so many layers. Totally. There's a beer for everybody out
Brett Willis:There. Totally. And I, I think the thing I, I too, I feel too, is that like, I don't fault the person who says I don't like ails because I'm sure they've had a number of ails that they're like, you know what, these aren't my style. But I think like, totally the thing that makes it so difficult is that like, we were legitimately having a conversation on what to call a beer, like two weeks ago with our brew master and some of our lead brew team, because it was brewed with an, a yeast, but it was fermented at lager temperatures. And so the question became like, yes, technically this is an ale. We should probably say ale, but there are certain expectations that come with that where, when someone tasted the beer, if you just gave someone that beer and they knew a, a bit about beer, they would probably say it was a LAGR, but it's like, you know, you have that nuance where there are so many different ways to take it, that it is confusing, you know, ultimately, so totally
Lindsay Bohanske:The distinction, as far as the yeast is concerned, as far as ails versus lagers ails are top fermenting yeast. So that means that the activity of the fermentation is happening at the top of the tanks. Whereas lager yeasts are bottom fermenting, which means that the activity is actually happening at the bottom of the tank. And that actually even changes the types of tanks that you use to make the beer. So with lagering tanks, they tend to be longer and shorter. Whereas with, you know, if you're using a lot of ale yeast, you're using a tall conical for mentor, because you want a different type of atmosphere for those yeast to actually do their thing. So it's a little complicated, but that's definitely one of the things you'll see if you kind of read about the difference between ails and lagers. Yeah. And I, I think one of the questions we actually get a lot too is like, I don't really like beer, but I like white, you know, or like where, or people will say, I don't really like beer, but I like, I tend to like sours or, you know, they'll ask like, what should I try? Sure. If I don't really like beer and<laugh>, that's a tough one because you don't really know everybody's, you know, background experience about what it is that they don't like, maybe they don't like hops be, you know, they've had a very bad experience with bitter tasting beers or beers that, you know, were too bland, you know, like some super light lagers out there. There's a lot of, you know, crisp light lagers, you know, people might just not like that flavor, but you know, you give them a nice rich chocolate stout<affirmative> or, you know, a nice tart raspberry, wild ale mm-hmm<affirmative> and all of a sudden it's tasting more like these other flavors that they do, like, like coffee and chocolate and, you know, maybe, you know, you like really tart lemonade, try a sour, you know, try something funky,
Brett Willis:Speaking of sour and wild beers. Lindsay. Yeah. Could you just kind of tell me a little bit, what's the difference between a sour and a wild beer?
Lindsay Bohanske:Oh man. Yeah. It's kind of like one of those, it's a big question and<affirmative>, and, you know, sort of at all gas, pretty much all of our beers are what I would describe as all of our beers that have acidity, I should say are wild, but not all of our wild beers are sour.
Brett Willis:That makes sense. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Lindsay Bohanske:So we brew with some strains of, of yeast that are kind of wild or cultivated from the wild called Brettanomyces, different strains of Brettanomyces yeasts, and Brettanomyces doesn't really contribute a ton of acidity to beer, but it does create these really fun, funky, and fruity, especially flavors. And we tend to pick wild yeast that really inject flavors like pineapple and, um, tropical fruit notes like that, as opposed to the yeast that are creating a lot of like ultra ultra funky flavors. And, you know, a little bit of funk is great. It adds a lot of character in depth to beer, but that just tends to be where we go as far as wild is concerned. And then we also play around with different mixing of different Brett strains with, uh, bacteria. And it's actually the bacteria that makes beer sour just like in yogurt or in kombucha. Um, it's the bacteria in there that's actually creating acidity and making that element shine. And there's a couple different ways that you can brew a sour beer mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, which is really just a component of the flavor. You know, there's not really like a, there, there isn't just one type of sour beer. There's a huge, enormous range. And so it is confusing and complicated because there are certain styles that are kind of by nature sour, but there's really two main ways to make a beer sour. Um, traditionally you can do a kettle sour method method. Kettle souring is a way that you can kind of add Lata basils, which is that bacteria into the kettle and kind of do a quick, what's considered like a quick souring method of making a beer, have extra acidity. And then when you boil you sort of the amount of acidity that's in there, so you can have like a really tarp beer really quickly mm-hmm<affirmative> whereas most of the wild and sour beers that we're doing at all gas are sort of the slow traditional methods that you would find in Europe, especially in Belgium, France, where you're adding these microbes over time after there's already been an initial fermentation. So a lot of times what we'll do is we'll brew a beer. It'll kind of do a primary fermentation in a Chronicle tank in one facility, and then we'll send it to our wild and sour area. We'll where we'll add, um, some lactobacillus and also pediococcus. Um, and then those souring bacterias will take on a whole new flavor profile. And most of those microorganisms, they need a little bit of oxygen mm-hmm<affirmative> in order to keep doing what they're doing. So that's why we're using a lot of barrels. We use a lot of kind of fun tanks over there. We're using things like clay, amphoras, and we even have a concrete tank in our wild and sour sellers. So some really cool techniques, some things that people have been doing for, you know, thousands of years, aging in clay and, and Oak and those extra oxygen molecules really just help the beer to keep changing and becoming more into interesting over time. Whereas, you know, with a beer like white, we wanna keep it in stainless. We want it to have as little oxygen as possible. Um, so it's like a totally different way of brewing, really fun, really time consuming, labor intensive, uh, process, but they make some really cool beers indeed, but they're, I mean, it takes time. So they're definitely on the price, your side, as far as our brand is, are concerned.
Brett Willis:Totally. And I mean, another, another part of that too, is adding fruit. You know, you can get some souring bacteria on the literal skin of the fruit, if you're using fresh fruit, which we use a lot of fresh fruit, uh, from farmers and that's it, I mean, yeah. And then you can get into spontaneous fermentation, which I feel like is the topic of another podcast. We will talk about that in much more depth elsewhere. Uh, cool sample. Yes. The cool ship. That's a hard part about sour beer. Cause I think it's like, it's, it's not wrong to say like, Hey, what, what sour do you have? Because it's true. Like, you know, you can categorize the beers. What, what are the sour beers that you have? But it is a really interesting point that there are a lot of ways to make a beer sour.
Lindsay Bohanske:Totally. Yeah. And you know, some beers are really lightly tart and there might even be more of a perception of acidity in certain beers. Um, you know, like when you add raspberries to a beer raspberries or naturally acidic, so you get a little bit more of a tartness to them. Whereas, you know, sometimes there's beers that are little bit too sour for my taste, but it's a huge range. It's a range.
Brett Willis:The next question we have comes from social media and we get it very often. And Lindsay, I don't honestly even know if you're gonna be able to answer this, so I might have to, uh, just answer it, but may, maybe you'll, I think you will have a perspective on it. Uh, the question that, uh, we get often is why don't you ship your beer to X state where we do not currently ship our beer.
Lindsay Bohanske:This comes up, I think in all avenues, whether it's social media in person and we get visitors from all over the country that come to the brewery and they're like, why can't I get you in Ohio or Texas or Colorado? What have you? Yeah, exactly. And the short answer is, you know, we actually, at one point we sold beer in 30 different states. We were actually in selling beer in Texas and Ohio and some other states as well. And we were spread way too thin. We just weren't able to keep up with that much distribution. And so we pulled way back, Rob, our owner just felt like we needed to focus in on the places that were, you know, making sense for us as a business. And so we really focused in on the east coast and, um, over time we've been kind of away and adding some places back, but really it's so that we can keep the beer fresh, that we can keep, you know, our customers happy. We can fulfill the needs of certain states as we need to, and, um, not get overwhelmed. Cuz there was definitely a point where Rob was totally overwhelmed with how many different states we were selling beer to. Totally.
Brett Willis:And so I think the only thing I would add is I'd say take heart if you don't live in our current distribution footprint, because I feel like now more than ever, we are in a place where we just recently started distributing to Wisconsin. Uh, we recently started distributing to Florida, uh, which is very exciting. That's been a big one. Yeah. That's a big one. That was where a lot of our fans were. Um, and so who knows, who knows what the future holds and I have one more, uh, that I feel like would be a fun one to end on. It's a little spicy one, uh, what's best spicy what's best Lindsay bottled or canned beer.
Lindsay Bohanske:Oh boy.<laugh> I had a feeling this one was gonna come up. Uh<laugh>. It is, it's a little controversial. Um, so at Allagash, our beers are bottled and canned. Some brands are bottled and canned, like Allagash white. We do in bottled and cans, beers like river trip and north sky. We only do in cans right now. So, you know, we, we make decisions about, you know, the beers that we have, um, depending on the package, but the short answer is doesn't really matter. As long as the beer is going in fresh, you're getting oxygen out of the package. Um, there's not really a massive difference between bottles and cans and each one sort of has its benefit for like cans. Obviously they're lighter, you know, you might be able to pack'em on a hike, that's convenient, there's some convenience factors, but you know, bottles are great too. Um, you know, there's nothing really wrong with drinking out of a bottle versus a can we have actually done dozens of tests in our lab and in our sensory panel to actually test ourselves and make sure that the beers are tasting really consistent because the, that was one of the things that was really hard when we started doing some canning because most of our beers are bottle conditioned. And so that whole process really, I think we were nervous to do cans canned conditioning, uh, because we were worried that the flavor of the beer would be different of either whether we forced carbonated or if we canned condition it that the, you know, the shape of the can or, you know, the process would change. And so we did<laugh> many, many, many tests to make sure that the beers were tasting consistent from package to package. And what we found was that in a blind taste test, we can't tell the difference, uh, people who have studied the beers who go through sensory training, mm-hmm<affirmative>, we cannot tell the difference between our bottles and our canned beer.
Brett Willis:Uh, so just to back up a little bit, uh, could you just kind of briefly explain what you mean by bottle or canned conditioning?
Lindsay Bohanske:Absolutely. So bottle and canned conditioning is where you add a little bit of sugar and sometimes yeast, right at the very, very, very end of fermentation before it goes into the package, whether it's bottles or cans. And what that does is it kind of creates a mini re fermentation in the bottle or can that finishes the carbonation of the beer. So the, it creates slightly smaller bubbles of carbonation, which means that the beer has better head retention, um, thus better aroma. It creates this really bright, um, slightly more carbonated beer. And that's actually one of the things that we do, that's very Belgian as well, is that, you know, this bottle bottle conditioning especially is something that Belgians have been doing, especially at like slightly higher carbonation levels for a long, long, long time. So it helps also to keep oxygen out of the beer as well. So it keeps the beer fresher, uh, and over time, you know, our beer has great shelf stability. And part of that is because of the bottle condition or can conditioning that we do.
Brett Willis:That was kind of all I had. Is there any like FAQ that you can think of that, that we didn't hit on?
Lindsay Bohanske:I was just gonna say the other thing about bottles versus cans that we get a lot is about recyclability.
Brett Willis:Yep.
Lindsay Bohanske:And we've done a lot of analysis of this as well, because I obviously we wanna do the best thing for the environment. And when you go back to like harvesting of aluminum and recyclability of bottles, there's actually almost no difference as far as the environmental, um, impact of bottles versus cans. And so we have decided to do both.
Brett Willis:Yeah. And that was a big new Belgium study too. Uh, that was really helpful and kind of looking at all that information as well, so kudos to new Belgium, uh, putting that together.
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah. That's good stuff.
Brett Willis:So another question we get, uh, quite a bit is pertaining specifically to Allagash white. And do we put a slice of fruit on our Allagash white,
Lindsay Bohanske:The short answer, Brett is we do not. And the reason really is because we actually brew white with curacao orange peel already added to it. And you get a lot of those citrusy notes naturally from the wheat and from the yeast and from that curacao orange peel. So we find that it's just perfect as it is, but that all being said, you know, no shame. And if that's like your thing that you love to put a lemon wedge or a, an orange slice in there, you know, There's no shame to
Brett Willis:That. However you like it,
Speaker 3:That's totally good. You can do it.
Lindsay Bohanske:That's fine. That's fine. True. Everybody
Brett Willis:Likes things different, true story. My brother, who is an Allagash white super fan, he, it is like before I started working at Allagash, it was his favorite beer. So it has nothing to do with me working here. He will always put a slice of lemon in that beer and I'm like, you know, I get it. That's what you, that's what you enjoy. And I totally get it.
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah. I actually have a theory about this, how the lemon versus orange thing came to be. Um, and I think it started, especially in my guess, well, I don't know exactly where, but I think it was a way for, for bars that had like a lot of taps and maybe carried other whip beers, like, um, you know, blue moon or different types of whip of, of cuz blue moon has an, they actually recommend that you use an orange. And so I think it was sort of a way to differentiate between Beers like, and, uh, AAS white, um, which is why I think, especially in new England, they use a lemon wedge instead of an orange. Right. That's a little theory I have. It looks good. It's cool. It looks great. It looks great. And it also, I think, gives you an impression of what the beer's gonna be like. Right, right. Like it's gonna have that citrusy note. Totally. So I get it. I get it. But it's already got the citrus scene there
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Lindsay Bohanske:You don't have
Speaker 3:To add it.<laugh>
Brett Willis:All right, Lindsay, we've got another one. And this one comes in, uh, more on kind of a quality aspect of Allagash White specifically. We will sometimes get people who say, you know, I, I love your Allagash White on draft. I took, I got some, uh, bottles brought'em home, poured it out and it did not look or take taste like the Allagash White that I had on draft. So what, what is going on there?
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah, what's up with that. Probably what's up with that is that when you're pouring an Allagash white, it's really important to make sure to, uh, Rouse your yeast out of the bottom of the bottle or can. And what that means is that, you know, some of the wheat is White has a lot of protein. Um, and we use these B style yeast, and sometimes over time, little pieces of them will kind of accumulate at the bottom. And so what you wanna do when you pour it is you wanna give it a gentle swirl, gentle mm-hmm,<affirmative> gentle, you don't wanna shake it, uh, gentle swirl. And then as you're pouring it, make sure to, you know, dump out all of those yeasts and, uh, proteins, because it really does make a huge difference in the flavor of the beer. And it's not gonna look the same, especially, or taste the same if you don't do that. So the way I always pour White is I pour about half of it out into a glass and nice world and to can't the rest of it into a class. And then the other thing I would say too, is make sure you're using a glass cuz not everybody does that. And it's really, it does, if you can smell a beer, it makes such a huge difference in the flavor. So if you're drinking something straight out of a bottle or straight out of a can, you're not getting like with a draft beer, you get that full aroma effect from drinking it, um, from smelling it. I mean, and so that's the other thing too, is that if you're, you know, if you're drinking a bottle or a can, it's gonna taste very different versus drinking a, a so always pour it into a glass tube.
Brett Willis:That's good. Yeah. I mean, I think we have also talked about from browsing your yeast. You can even do it before you open it. You know, if you remember, uh, before you open the bottle or can turn it upside down, swirl it for about 10 seconds, then you'll get all that yeast in, uh, protein into suspension and it'll be tasting re good actually fun fact. It's why we ship, uh, kegs of Allagash White upside down, uh, because then when the bar or restaurant, uh, comes time to pour it, they have to flip it over, which, uh, in effect rouse the yeast and uh, make sure they're all pouring perfectly.
Lindsay Bohanske:Yeah, we do that in the taste too.
Brett Willis:Yeah. I gotta try this out.<laugh>
Lindsay Bohanske:I got homework to do. I was my yeast.
Brett Willis:I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish this one up and say that this, I feel like is exactly the sort of thing that we love to do is answer people's questions and try to kind of demystify beer to a certain extent because it is not a simple, simple concept. It there's a lot of nuance and there's a lot of information around beer. Uh, so if you, you have listened to this and want us to talk about anything, any questions you have, any thoughts, anything you want, even us to clarify that we already kind of talked about, um, just shoot us a message at podcast@allagash.com. Uh, we'd love to hear any feedback or any thoughts you have. Um, and so thank you again, Lindsay. It was awesome having you. Yeah.
Lindsay Bohanske:Thanks for having me so much. I love talking about this stuff. It's so fun. Beer is, beer
Brett Willis:Is wonderful.
Lindsay Bohanske:<laugh>
Brett Willis:Well, yeah, thanks again. And for our listeners, if you have anything that you want to ask us, anything that you're interested in hearing us talk about, please let us know. At podcast@allagash.com would love to hear any and all feedback. This has been an Allagash brewing production.