From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast

S1 Episode 7: Every Employee Gets a Trip to Belgium

June 02, 2022 Season 1 Episode 7
From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast
S1 Episode 7: Every Employee Gets a Trip to Belgium
Show Notes Transcript

After five years with the company, Allagash employees get the chance to go on a fun-filled trip to Belgium with Rob, our founder, and Jason, our Brewmaster. In this episode, we chat with Rob and Jason about that very trip. What breweries do we visit? What beers do they love to enjoy? What is it about Belgian beer culture that makes it so special? Come for the list of breweries that are “must-visits,” stay for a story of how Rob ended up lugging a stone clock around the streets of Ghent.

Brett Willis:

This is from Maine with love, an Allagash brewing podcast, where we talk about beer, our community here in Maine and things that generally make us happy. I'm lucky to be joined by Rob Todd, founder and brewer. Jason Perkins, our brewmaster here at Allagash, Liz Wilson, marketing manager, and I'm Brett Willis. For some reason, I've been saying Brett, like, I've just been saying my only, just my first name for some reason, but I'm Brett Willis, uh, marketing specialist here at Allagash. Uh, thank you. Thanks for joining me or us. Thanks for joining. We

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Sometimes you don't, you don't need two names, you know?

Brett Willis:

Oh, wow. Thank

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

You. You know,

Brett Willis:

Thank you. That's, that's very kind of you, Jason. So we're gonna chat with Rob and Jason, about a tradition here at Allagash. Uh, when an employee hits their five year mark they and any other five year employees all go on a trip with Jason and Rob, uh, to Belgium. And internally we call that trip Bellagash. One of the rare times we like use a portmanteau here at Allagash. You know, we don't really like doing any of that, but we have that here and we like it. Uh, and so on the trip, the group visits, breweries talks to brew masters, and generally I get to enjoy the beers that inspired Rob and Jason, uh, you know, in the first place. And so before we do that, I have a, a question for Rob, Rob, what is your favorite season for surfing in Maine

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Hard question? The summer's my favorite season for like favorable weather to not have to wear a super thick wetsuit gloves, boots, all that stuff. Um, but it's crowded. Yeah. I don't know if it, I don't know if I have a favorite. I think there's like pros and cons to every month, but I do it year round and I love it.

Brett Willis:

<laugh> that's awesome. All right, Jason, I got one for you and I'm really interested in your answer here. So what would you say is your play style in hockey? Are you an, do you like assisting? Are you like scoring? Are you an enforcer? What's what's the play style

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

<laugh> um, I guess I'm probably the goon really enough when somebody needs something done. Uh that's when I that's, when I hit the ice, I'm usually on the bench until there's problems, man. Um,

Brett Willis:

I was gonna say, I noticed a couple missing teeth. Uh, you there? Yeah,

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

<laugh> no, that's completely untrue. Um, I actually, when I was in high school, I got, uh, at the end of the year I got the award for sport. I got a sportsmanship award, which mean I had the least penalty minutes, but that's like, not the award you wanna get.<laugh> like, all my buddies just gave me a whole bunch of crap cuz they were like, oh, you're the sportsman, you know, it's in hockey here. That's not a, that's not a badge of honor.<laugh>

Brett Willis:

That's awesome. We asked social media, some people on social media to, um, you know, if they had any questions for, uh, you Rob or Jason. And so we're just gonna get to a couple of'em. So this one could be, I think a really long answer, but I feel like maybe a slightly shortened version would be best, but so how did the wild friendship blend start?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

I don't remember. I really don't remember. I mean, probably just casual conversation over a beer at Cantillon. Do you remember Jason?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

I actually do. I, I actually am like super, like, I guess honored to, to say that it was Jean at Cantillon who it was his idea. Wow. Um, you know, he does this event every two years in normal circumstances where he hosts an event at the, at the brewery and um, you know, it focuses on winemakers sometimes breweries sometimes and he wanted us to be a part of that. And because, you know, we've been making spontaneous fermentation beer here for a while and as had Vinnie at Russian river, um, he just thought it would be a fun idea to focus on for this specific event, um, quintessence, they call it. Um, and so that's how it started. It was his ask of us to send beer and I have to say it might be, um, one of the easiest questions I've ever been asked in my life. Do you want to be a part of this blend?<laugh> easy. Uh, question to answer

Brett Willis:

First thing that was from Brandon Patel. Thank you for that question on Instagram. This next one, uh, comes from Danton underscore B and it's anywhere on the stateside wild friendship events.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

I, I can, I guess I could answer. Yeah,

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Go, go

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

For it. Um, so we're kind of in a way repeating what we did in 2015. So in the first time we did the wild friendship line event was in 2014 in Belgium and then 2015 in the states. Um, and we did it in two different locations, one in Russian river and one in here in Portland, we're gonna kind of follow that to some degree. So, uh, Russian river will be hosting an event at their brewery on June 12th. I think, I think it's June 12th, um, uh, at, at their beautiful brewery in Windsor, California. Um, and sorry, 13th, I just looked up calendar June 13th and then we will be doing something in the greater Portland area, uh, on June 16th, uh, in this area. So, uh, in town, we're not gonna do a host an event here at the brewery this time, but we're gonna do an event in, in town, more details to follow.

Liz Wilson:

Great. And uh, I think, you know, we asked for questions or good vibes and I think this kind of fell under the good vibes, but lager dog official says drink an Underberg

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

<laugh> well, we just checked that box about 15 minutes ago.

Brett Willis:

<laugh>

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Jason and I finished up a meeting and went right over to the accounting department and had an Underberg with a crew of people up here.

Brett Willis:

That's awesome. Couldn't have planned that any better. Oh man.<laugh>, that's amazing. Um, from, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to pronounce the name, but it's Guedelha uh, on Instagram, do you change the water profile for each beer slash beer style?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah, I'll just the short answer is not for every beer style. No, but we do a little bit of adjustments to our water depending on the beer we're making. Um, but I'll first say that we don't have to do a lot because how fortunate we are with the water source we pull from, we pull out a CIBA lake, um, you know, super clean, super well-balanced water profile. Um, it's the municipal water in our area where couldn't, we were so fortunate to have an unbelievable water source that you know, for, for drinking, but also for brew and beer with. And um, so there's very little, we have to do to like build up the water to get it ready for the kind of beers we're making, but we'll do some calcium additions for certain happy beers is the short answer.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Cool.

Liz Wilson:

Kevin Clifton wonders. And I think this is for either of you or maybe both, what was the feeling like when you tried your own cool ship after three long years of waiting?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

It was pretty cool. I mean, we, you know, we, we really, I don't wanna say we did this project on a whim, but I mean, you have to kind of transport yourself back to 2006, I guess. I mean, I was in Belgium with Tommy Vinny, Adam, uh, and Sam from Dogfish and we spent a week or so, um, really focusing on spontaneously fermented beers. The lamb is lambic beers and we were just immersed in these beers, uh, for a week. And really up to that point, uh, all brewers trainings set had said, you could only make these beers in the sun valley region in Belgium, in the, in the Brussels area. Uh, and you can't make these beers anywhere else. And I was having a casual conversation with Jean at Cantillon on that trip. And I mentioned that and John looked at me and started shaking his head. And he's like, no, you can make these beers anywhere. Uh, you know, as long as you have the right weather conditions, they're gonna be different from place to place, but you can make these beers anywhere. So I, you know, I didn't think a whole lot more about it over the next, uh, year and a half or year, but I did wake up one day, probably Jason remembers, I think it was in August of oh seven and I just, it just came to me in a flash. I was like, we're doing this, we're gonna do it. John said, we can do it, we're gonna do it. Um, we worked with, uh, a couple very supportive brewers in Belgium who we have a tremendous amount of respect for, you know, John at, at Canon, uh, Frank bone. We, uh, spoke with a little Armand at Dre Fontana and, uh, we, we just dove in and did it, but it was daunting cuz to my knowledge, it hadn't been done in the us at least on a commercial scale. Um, it's a very long winded way of getting to, it was really, really cool trying it for the first time. It was kind, I was kind of a disbelief like, wow, we actually did this. And uh, we've been doing it now for geez 15 she's 15 years now. I think I can't, that's

Brett Willis:

Wild.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

That is wild. And Jason does an amazing job brewing those beers and an amazing job blending them. And uh, it's been, it's been a fun 15 years for sure. But yeah, the trying it for the first time, it really was. I, I couldn't believe we'd actually pulled it off.<laugh>

Liz Wilson:

Jason, any, any other thoughts on, on that?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Aw man, I just totally agree with what you were upset. Um, I, I, I just wanna reinforce like how it kind of felt like a, it felt like an experiment like a whim for, for years. That was kind of what was kind of funny about the project is, I mean, we literally called it a project for years because it just took that long to really understand what we had we had. And we started maybe at a year plus in like, okay, maybe this, maybe this could work. You're starting to see some flavor development coming along in those, in the batches that were a year old, but you know, to make a beer like this, you need two to three years to create these beers available for the blend. So I honestly don't remember like a distinctive moment where I was like, oh wow. Yes, it was more like a slow build of like, wow, this, this is kind of maybe gonna work. And um, that's slowly building over time.

Brett Willis:

That's great. Yeah. And I think like also just for anyone, uh, who's not super familiar with spontaneously fermented beers or the coolship or lambic style beers and stuff like that. We're gonna do an, a podcast episode about that entirely. So you'll learn quite a bit, but there's a lot of, you know, information online stuff about that too. It is a very, very interesting process, I guess I get the next question, which is from beers with Mandy. Uh, and the question is how do you think about bottle versus can carbonation? Does it matter? Can conditioning question mark?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. Um, let's see. Does it matter? It certainly matters. Um, I don't wanna oversimplify it, but um, you can bottle condition. You can can condition there's, um, there's different parameters that the, uh, each package, whether it's a, a 12 ounce bottle, a 750 milliliter bottle, a 3 7, 5 milliliter bottle, a can, are all gonna have different specifications of the pressures they can hold and carbonation creates pressure. So you have to keep that in mind. Um, always no matter what you're doing, whether you're can conditioning bottle conditioning or not having a good understanding of what the, the package can hold for pressure is super important. Um, but what we found is that aside, which is a big aside, right, like different carbonation are, are very important. And we choose the bottles we use for 750 milliliter and 3 7, 5 milliliter bottles because they can withstand high pressure. Right. So we can intentionally carbonate very high in those. But, um, you know, other than that, very big aside, you can do it in both. Like we can condition, uh, we bottle condition. We do it both. Um, and in the end experience, um, and I'll use white as an example, cuz it's the easiest one, white in a bottle and white in a can, if you separate and you pour that in the glass, there's no one who can tell the difference. Even our incredibly high trained sensory panel here. They're the same.

Brett Willis:

Great. Yeah. Thanks. And I think our final one, uh, falls again to the good vibes and I, I swear I didn't write this myself, but Matthew, the Henry says Allagash beer plus identity plus mission feels like a never ending love letter to Maine simply. Beautiful. Thanks Matthew. Thank You, Matthew. That's awesome. All right. Let's get to the matter at hand. Um, so I think our first question around Bellagash this five year trip to Belgium is, um, it's kind of for you Rob. And I think just trying to set the stage of like just kind of setting the stage that we are a, you know, a belgian inspired brewery. And so, you know, why Belgium, you know, what was it about these beers that inspired you, uh, to model your brewery the way it's

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

It, it it's, it was important to me from day one to give people a unique experience with beer. And I looked at the Belgium brewing tradition as an opportunity to do that. That's like the really simple, condensed answer, um, mean going back to when I started the brewery in 94 95, it was really important for me to do something that was additive. I really didn't see the point in spending a year cobbling, a brewery together, you know, working 16 hour days, building it for a year, running it alone for the first year. And then hopefully if things worked out, running it for the rest of my career, um, I didn't see the point in doing something that was already being done. I wanted to do something different. Uh, there were plenty of great beers and plenty of great beer styles being brewed at the time. Um, but I really, and, and honestly, if we had chosen one of those, um, more available kind of popular styles, like the Pacific Northwest pale ales, some of the British style beers, the German style beers, all of which I love if, if we'd chosen one of those, we probably would've sold a lot more beer over the first 10 years, but I didn't see the point in making something that people could already get. Uh, so I really looked at the Belgian brewing tradition and there were very few brewers, um, in the country at the time making the, the Belgian style beers and the imports weren't that available back in the mid nineties, I looked at that really as an opportunity to give people an experience they'd never had before with beer. And if you're brewing Belgian style beers, uh, you can use fruit with some of the styles. You can ferment the beers with bacteria, wild yeast, uh, lots of different Saccharomyces cultures that Belgium beers use, Brett( brettanomyces) cultures, uh, different fermentation processes in stainless steel, in an Oak aging, an Oak, uh, UN malted grains spices. So it it's kind of an unlimited palate of, uh, brewing techniques and raw materials that the brewer has at their disposal to, to create really an unlimited, um, palate of experiences for the, for the beer drinker. So I was just really intrigued by that tradition and that's why we started making Belgian style beer.

Brett Willis:

Awesome.

Liz Wilson:

So when it comes to visiting Belgium and Bellagash, you know, we'd love to sort of hear from, you know, either of your words, how you describe it to someone who knew nothing about it. Um, so the experience in general, and as Brett mentioned at the top of the show, once an employee from any department, um, hits their five year anniversary, they get to go on a week long trip with both of you to Belgium.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

I mean, well, first of all, full disclosure, uh, New Belgium brewing had that tradition and I I'd heard about it. And I mean, in the old days, we certainly didn't have the resources to bring a bunch of people over to Belgium for, for the, for the week. And there weren't a whole lot of employees back in, in the old days<laugh> um, but once we got to the point where we, we did have the resources to do it, um, I was intrigued by the idea and really to me, it's kind of three things. Number one, it's a thank you for five years of hard work and, and passion over a five year period. Um, just an unbelievable, unbelievable amount of contributions, uh, to our culture and brewery. So a it's a thank you B um, it's an opportunity to be immersed in the Belgian brewing culture and tradition. And even though we can certainly try those beers stateside, uh, it's a totally different experience to walk in, uh, to, to these breweries and, and drink these beers with the brew masters who are, who are creating the beers. So, uh, immersion, and then finally for me, and I, I think for a lot of other employees, um, it's a really fun and unique way to spend time together in a way that we wouldn't otherwise be able to spend that time together. So, uh, and we're actually going in about two and a half weeks. I can't wait these trips now get old. I always look forward to'em.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. And we haven't been in two years now because of the pandemic. So it'll be the first trip back since 2019. Yeah.

Liz Wilson:

It's a lot of excited employees.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. I've got mine coming up. I think I'm in like the November camp, if that, if that trip does happen. So I'm very, I'm looking forward to it.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. I mean, I'll just add that again. Like Rob said, like, you know, five years we've worked with these people and I'm speaking personally, you know, I've worked with these, all these people for five years. So, you know, I know'em pretty well. And, and they're, you know, I consider them all friends, but in most cases, if not all, like, I haven't really had an experience like this with any of'em, you know, so to be able to get, um, for me personally, to be able to have that time with them, but then the fact that it's all different departments each time, um, you know, there's always a couple people on the brew team, a couple people in the packaging, a couple people in sales, couple people in, um, you know, in a tasting room, et cetera, who are on those trips. And so for them all to get together is great. And then the other thing that's cool is, you know, luckily we have people who stay much longer than five years. So it becomes this thing that when, when people have gone, they can talk to the people who are about to go and, you know, talk to'em about what they're gonna do. And they get back to like, did you go here? Did you go here? And it becomes like another, uh, super cool thing for people that connect on, even if they didn't go on the same, on the same trip.

Brett Willis:

That's cool. Um, so kind of like a follow up question to that is I don't, I don't necessarily want you to go through every single place we visit, but like, what are the regions of Belgium that, that you're normally visiting on the trip?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

We mix it up, I would say brewery wise. Um, it's usually a third of the breweries we visit, we've never been to before. A third of the breweries we maybe go to every five or six years. And a third of the breweries we go to every single year and they never get old. I always, I always look forward to it. Um, but region wise, it, it, it kind of depends on the year in the breweries that we're visiting. Wouldn't you say, Jason?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. I mean, you know, uh, stating the obvious maybe here, but, you know, Belgium is kind of split up into two distinct regions, the Northern portion, the Dutch speaking portion and the Southern French speaking portion. And, um, you know, we try to mix up and, and hit both regions every year, if we can. Um, we do tend to, I guess probably tend to spend a little bit more time in, you know, the kinda Dutch speaking Flanders portion of Belgium, but, um, we do like to mix it up. It's a, it's a beautiful country. So we try to as much of it as we can,

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

We very often end up with Ghent as a base camp for at least a good chunk of each of the trips, just cuz it's a beautiful fun city. That's in a, um, I mean it's in a location where, uh, we can get to a lot of the breweries, especially some of the ones that we, that we visit every year

Brett Willis:

I've been here for about, I've actually almost six years now, but I feel like I've kind of picked up little snippets, uh, here and there, but isn't the skyline across from that where we stay there, the inspiration for the, uh, label of the beer Belfius is that right?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Correct. Yes it is. Yes.

Brett Willis:

Ah, all right. Nice. I thought I had that right. Deep getting deep,

Liz Wilson:

Deep cut Brett.

Brett Willis:

Got it. Do the deep cuts. Um,<laugh> all right. You get the next question list.

Liz Wilson:

So before we get into, you know, what the breweries are and sort of your highlights of the trips you've, you've landed in Belgium first beer you're drinking

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

<laugh> yeah, I guess that's a great question. I mean, there are definitely some beers that I always go to every time we go there, but the first beer we arrive is honestly dependent on what brewer we go to because, uh, you know, we don't, well, there are certain breweries we go to every time, typically just the cadence of our trip. We, when we arrive, we go go to a brewery and um, you know, usually cuz of the overnight flight you're getting in at, you know, nine in the morning, uh, groggy and whatever. I'm a firm believer in powering through getting a big heavy day in the first day and not taking any naps<laugh> so we usually hit two breweries the first day. And so yeah, you usually have your first beer in your hand by, um, you know, 10:30 AM, something like that. So it depends a little bit on what brewery we, we go to visit. Um,

Brett Willis:

That's great.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

But there are many, many beers that I personally always look forward to having when I'm there and summer ones, you can only get there and summer ones you can get in the us, but there's just something really special about the freshness of them there. Yeah. Um, and the experience of drinking them there that is hard to replace in the us, you know, I guess couple of the, maybe more obvious ones, certainly absolutely. Orval is one of my favorite beers in the world. Um, and it's a beer that's, you know, uh, conditioned with Brettanomyces in the bottle and you know, almost everything you get in the us, if not everything is, is very Brett-focused, which is lovely and amazing. Um, but to be able to drink that beer fresh, you know, after a month or so in the bottle in Belgium is a really cool experience cuz it's a completely different beer. Hmm. Um, I'm also a huge fan of westmall tripel again, a beer you can get in the us, but something about having it over there, I can name any number of the lambic breweries that are wonderful to drink over there. Uh, and of course De La Senne beers, I'm a huge De La Senne fan and yes, you can get Zinnebier and Taras Bulba here in the us at some places, but, um, be able to drink that beer in Brussels in the city that it's made is, is pretty phenomenal. Just to name a few.

Brett Willis:

Awesome. How about you Rob?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

I mean, my list is gonna be pretty similar to Jason's. I get on kicks sometimes when I'm over there. Uh, we were just over there just for a few days, but I was drinking a lot of De Koninck when I was over there. The bolleke is what they called the, the glass that it served in and I was drinking a fair amount of that. I guess that would be just a Brabant pale ale. Right. Jason, that style, um, was on, I was on a little bit of a kick on the last trip<laugh> but absolutely all the other beers that, that Jason mentioned, a lot of Orval. And a lot of now that you can get De La Senne five years ago was a little bit hard to find that now mm-hmm<affirmative>, uh, Yvonne's beers are, are, you can find them in, especially in the Brussels area. They're, they're very accessible.

Brett Willis:

Awesome. So I guess we, I think it's, it'd be worth getting it a little bit specific on some of the breweries. So like what are some of those breweries that, you know, what are the, you could say some of the bread and butter breweries that we tend to always visit, but like maybe even some of the ones that we visit more often too.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess we can, there, there are really three breweries that we go to every year mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, without fail and it's just kind of become our tradition. It's partial tradition, it's partial through just really good friends of ours. So, um, Cantillon in Brussels, um, just a beautiful brewery, uh, you know, old traditional brewery, amazing beers and that Jean and the rest of his family are just really good friends of ours at this point. And it's just a cool experience for everybody to see that place and see in the old equipment they're still brewing on today in the middle of the city. Um, so that place, we always go to De La Senne, we already mentioned actually has a new new brewery, but, um, has been in Brussels for, for a long time. And Ivan's a personal friend, absolutely love those beers. So we always go to those two breweries and Brussels. And then the third one is, um, the De Dolle brewery, which is, um, in kind of Western, um, Flanders. And, uh, you know, I think we started going there because it's open on Sundays and, um, Sundays is typically a hard time to see a brewery. I think that's how it kind of originated, um, was we wanted someplace to go and they were open on Sundays. Uh, but we have fell in love with that brewery. And, um, the, the husband and wife who own the place are just wonderful people and they do a tour on Sundays and that's a place where you can get their beers in the us, but there's nothing like a fresh arabier. Um, they're kind of blonde bitter that they sell there. Uh, it just, it's, it's one of my favorite places to have a beer in the world. Um, so we always go there on Sunday on our trips.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

That's awesome.

Liz Wilson:

So, you know, I'm sure, as you mentioned, there's lots of variation between trips, but you know, when you get to, to Belgium, uh, what are some of your favorite restaurants and experiences that, you know, employees seem to really light up around when, when you're there do any stick out in particular

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

There's one and I'm not gonna, you know, make any claims that it's the most like gourmet experienced<laugh>, but it's, uh, called Amadeus. It's a, basically a rib it's a rib joint and uh, yeah, I mean my mouth and water in just thinking of it. I've got this rib bucket here that I put my receipts in.

Brett Willis:

That's awesome.<laugh>,

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

It's a long story how I came to acquire that, but uh, yeah, Amadeus ribs, unbelievable. I mean the ribs they're, I don't know, it's just a really unique experience. It's all you can eat ribs and then all you can eat potatoes. And the it's like a baked potato wrapped in foil. Oh, slice down the middle. And they put a huge like heaping dollop of like a butter Curry. Um, like

Liz Wilson:

I'm gonna start practicing for that

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Now. Yeah. It's like a butter Curry dollop yeah. On the potato and you can eat all the ribs and potatoes you want and drink all the, um, very, I would say not so great wine. You want<laugh> Beer or beer, but yeah, we love, we love Amadeus. And then unfortunately one of our favorite waterzooi spots in G is closed. Um, or at least it merged with a bar, uh, who I think they share ownership with. And it's now just a place to drink beer, but, um, it was called Chez Leontin in Ghent and they had unbelievable fish waterzooi and chicken waterzooi and we were super sad on our last trip to see that that had closed. And then, uh, Le Brigittine, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, uh, it's a, a friend of Jean's in Brussels owns this restaurant. His name is Dirk. Um, and the food is unbelievable. Um, and the experience in, in there is unbelievable. It's really cool. It's like it, it's kind of got like very formal looking almost like Victorian decoration. It's not uncommon for half the people in there to have suits on. And, um, it just, it it's got a very formal feel to it. And then all of a sudden, like halfway through the dinner, Dirk will drop the needle on like a lead Zeppelin Album

Brett Willis:

(laughs)

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Frankie led Zeppelin around. So it's a pretty cool experience and delicious food. We just ate there. Geez. We were reading there a week ago. Right. Jason

Brett Willis:

So I actually have a question to back up. What is waterzooi?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

It's a traditional, I guess Flemish dish, right? Jason?

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. It's like a Flemish stew, like, um, cream-based with chicken or fish chicken, I think is typically more common, but

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Yeah, it's cream based for the chicken and then, um, it's uh,

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Or broad based for the

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Yeah. For fish and the fish usually has like a flaky white fish scallops, uh, fossils

Brett Willis:

Sounds like Belgian chowder I dunno if that

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Yeah.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. It's good.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

That's an interesting way to put it.

Brett Willis:

Um, there's another, so there's another one. Uh, at least I, I guess is more of a bar than a restaurant, but I feel like that is kind of like gained legendary status here, but it's is it, uh, there's like bikes hanging from the ceiling and like just kind of stuff in various places. What, what is the name of that place?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

I don't know what you're talking about.

Brett Willis:

<laugh> we cut it. We cut it from the episode.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Yeah, yeah. Jason, do you wanna,

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah, sure. Um,

Brett Willis:

If we don't, if we don't wanna talk about it, we can leave it as

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

No, no, we'll talk about, it just was a little bit of a sad ending. That's all it

Brett Willis:

I'm sorry. Y eah.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

So, uh, Velootje is the name of the place, which means tiny bicycle. Um, and it's, it's in Ghent, and it's, I, I actually got introduced to it, Rob and I were talking about this on our last trip. I think it was 2007 when I got, when I was over there and, and, uh, a Belgian friend was basically like, you need to, you need to go see his place. And he was with his wife and his wife was like, no, don't take him, please. Don't take him there, please. Don't take him there. And he was like, no, no, he wants, he needs to see this place. And of course I was immediately intrigued. Uh, and you go into this place and it's, it's not large. It's really small. It's called the little, the little bicycle, cuz he does have all these old bicycles, including some really cool old, like I believe one of his bicycles he claims was from the Napoleon army, I think. Wow. Wow. It's just an experience is really, really hard to describe. Um, and we've had a lot of really fun comical nights in this joint<laugh> um, and the owner Lieven, we, uh, you know, have made such an impression on him. We on us that we actually made a beer named after him, a blend of that's right. Wild beers, um, super interesting place. Uh, and then we kept going there every single year. Um, the sad end of the story is we just found out on this last trip that it is closed. Oh no. We actually ran into Lieven when we were walking around the streets again. And um, it's, it's done, done for good. He says

Brett Willis:

Just by happenstance, you ran into him.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. He was just, it was like a super sunny day. And again, he was just sitting in a chair, riding his tiny bike. Yep.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Nice. Yeah. On this little alley called Calvers... And he was at the head of the alley, just maybe 30 feet from his door, just sunning himself in like a beach chair. We were walking. I was like, is that Lieven? So, but yeah, some of the nights there, I mean, I mean literally the entire ceiling is taken up by things hanging. You can't even see the ceiling. There's so much stuff. Hanging floors are completely covered with boxes and stuff. The, uh, tables there's boxes piled everywhere. And I mean, I remember one time we were in there, he had a fire going in the fireplace, which I think is like a, this is like a 16th century fireplace. And he had like an eight foot stick of wood sticking out it. And he was just like pushing the wood into the fire is a burn. There was no lights, no electric light. There was all gas lights and candles. And there was a cat in there, like jumping in

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

<laugh>.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

I mean, that's like was probably like the number one cause of fires, cats, knocking lanterns over in the 1800s or whatever. And, and yeah, it was just, oh man. And there was always something going on in there, which was unexpected. Oh,

Brett Willis:

That's awesome.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

All I'll miss. I really will miss it. Yeah. But there was one night we were in there. It was a little late. We had probably visited a few breweries that day and there's this, uh, stone clock probably. I don't know. It's like 18 inches wide and eight inches tall or something. And I just, I was like, I wonder if Leman would sell it. I'm not even sure why I wanted it and being negotiated on a price. I walked out and I walked around, get that night for a couple hours, lugging this flock around would probably weigh 20 pounds. And then I put it in my bag, Lug it all around Belgium. And then unfortunately, uh, it, it, I checked the bag and I don't know if TSA broke it or the airline broke it. But when I opened the bag, state side, it was shattered in 50 pieces. So I spent like three months just like painstakingly, piecing it back together with epoxy. And, but it was kind of cool. I found an old note inside it, a letter inside it really, which is still inside it, it was written in, uh, Dutch and I had it translated. It was pretty, it was pretty cool. Something about like treasuring time and not wasting time.

Brett Willis:

I thought you were gonna say like that's where I got the recipe for Allagash white<laugh>

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Right behind me. The letters. Yeah. The clocks right behind me. The letters, the letters right

Brett Willis:

In. That's amazing. Wow.<laugh> oh man. Lieven. That's too bad. Okay.

Liz Wilson:

Reign it in Brett.

Brett Willis:

So to get us back on track, I, I feel like this is, I mean, this is maybe one of the, I we've, I feel like both of you kind of already answered this, but this is maybe one of the questions I'm most interested in and it's just like, what do you hope that employees take away from the experience? Like what do you hope people get out of it?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Whew. I mean, like I said, it kind of goes back to what I, um, think is, so you just unique about the trip is just the immersion in the Belgian brewing culture. So hopefully just by actually being there, drinking the beers with the brewers, like in these breweries, sometimes historic breweries that are a hundred plus years old. It's just, it's a, it's a really like different, unique way to experience these beers that you just wouldn't be able to get if you were just buying them on the shelf here, stateside. And then, like I said, it's one of the things I love about the trip. It's just a great way to spend time with people, um, that we all work with. And hopefully they feel the same way when they come back. They're like, wow. Like I wouldn't have otherwise had the opportunity to spend, uh, a week with someone in the sales department. Um, you know, talking about Belgian brewing traditions, talking about, uh, work, talking about life, you know, hobbies, what, whatever it is, it's just a really cool, unique way for everyone to get to know each other in a different way and, and spend time together. I really think they get the same thing out of it or I hope they get the same thing out of it that I get out of it, which is, which is all those things.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. I completely agree. And I, maybe the only thing I'll add is just on the, kind of on the expanding on the beer side and the tradition side, like the way that beer is kind of revered and treated in Belgium is really like nowhere else. You know, you, you could certainly argue today that pretty easily argue, frankly, that the amount of creativity, the amount of the wide range of beers in the us is kind of more, is broader than it is in Belgium. Just because of the number of breweries in the us, the amount of experimentation going on. But it's really hard to find anywhere else in the world that kind of treats beer with the same level of reverence and respect that it happens over there. And that's like even at a, the hotel bar, right? Like you order a beer at the hotel bar and you're gonna get it, you know, in the proper glassware with the, with the, the logo of the brewery facing you, as it's served this perfect head of foam, like there's just, there's that part. But then talking to all these brewers who maybe have been doing it for a couple years, or maybe they've been doing it as a third or fourth or fifth generation brewer, the way that they talk about their craft and the way they talk about what they do is just such an amazing experience for all of our staff to be a part of

Brett Willis:

That's great

Liz Wilson:

I'm counting down a couple years, I'm counting him down.

Brett Willis:

<laugh> you're closer than that.

Liz Wilson:

I am, I am.

Brett Willis:

So that, that comes at five years. So Rob and Jason is there, I guess, you know, what else is there? Is there something that comes after that? Like, is that, is that kind of the big perk?

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Well, there's something that actually, I need to take advantage<laugh> 2.7 times over, and that's, uh, a sabbatical a one month paid sabbatical that you get, um, after 10 years at the brewery and you know, our hope is, and, um, this is how it works. I mean, you, you, you, you pick a month of time and completely unplug, you know, delegate, whatever you need to delegate to, to coworkers and, um, just get a one month, you know, complete break and recharge. That's awesome. Um, like I said, I've still gotta do mine. Uh, I think I, I love working here too much, so I, I never wanna leave. I don't wanna leave for for a month. Um, but at some point I'm gonna, I'm gonna take mine and I think surfing might be involved, but yeah, it's a pretty, it's a pretty cool perk. Um, we've had a number of employees that have reached that milestone and J I should know the answer to this right off hand. Don't we do another one month sabbatical Jason at 15 years, and I think you've been able to do both

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

EV so yeah, you get your first one at 10 years and then every five years afterwards. That's awesome. Um, I guess I'm technically do a few more myself, but I have taken one. Uh, and it was, it's unbelievable. Um, the generous thing that Allagash does, and it's just to be able to kind of truly disconnect for a month is, and it's really strongly not encouraged. It's basically required that you're, you're off the grid, right? For, for at least a month, you can go as long as six weeks, if you wanna add your own additional, uh, paid time off to that sabbatical. But one month is kind of the extra time. Um, and it's worth noting for, especially for those in the academic world. It's not really a sabbatical<laugh>, it's like, it's like four weeks of vacation.<laugh>, you're not required to come back with some, uh, dissertation you learned during your time away.<laugh>

Brett Willis:

Somebody started that rumor the other day. I don't know who, when Matt, I would think it was you<laugh>.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Yeah. I was trying to make the only requirement be that you need to take a picture of yourself drinking an Allagash white somewhere fun, but I don't actually think many people have done that. So,

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Yeah, it's funny. I ran into one of our employees once on their sabbatical, completely randomly. I was getting on a gondola out in Colorado. I was just out there skiing with the family. It was a frigid day. So everyone was covered up head to toe. And I started talking to my wife, Betsy and someone across the go and goes, Rob<laugh> I'm like, who is that? It was, it was one of our employees. I didn't even know he was in Colorado ski, but we up on the same, same, that's amazing. I ran about halfway through a sabbatical. It was pretty funny.

Brett Willis:

Thank you both. Yeah. For taking the time to talk about the Bellagash trip, it was super fun to hear about. And it got me also quite excited, uh, to go on my trip, which is coming up soon.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. This'll be really fun. One. I mean, we only asked you a few questions, but we got so many from social. That's really fun. We'll have to do another version of that. Thanks everybody. Cool.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. Cool.

Jason Perkins (Brewmaster):

Thank you guys.

Brett Willis:

Thank you all.

Rob Tod (Founder/Brewer):

Later.

Liz Wilson:

This has been an Allagash brewing production. If you have something you want us to talk about on the show, shoot us a message at podcastataash.com or you can always D us on Instagram at Alagash brewing. Thanks everybody.