From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast

S3 Episode 2: Deep Dive into Berry Wine

February 16, 2024 Season 3 Episode 2
S3 Episode 2: Deep Dive into Berry Wine
From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast
More Info
From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast
S3 Episode 2: Deep Dive into Berry Wine
Feb 16, 2024 Season 3 Episode 2

You in the mood to geek out on wine making? Well, you better be if you're here to listen to the second episode of the third season of our podcast.

Liz and Brett are joined by Patrick Chavanelle, Senior R&D brewer, and potentially vintner, here at Allagash. We dive deep into the recent berry wines, berry wine/cider hybrids, and cider that we've created here at the brewery.

So pull up a chair and drink deeply of the fruit wine knowledge that Patrick has to impart!

Show Notes Transcript

You in the mood to geek out on wine making? Well, you better be if you're here to listen to the second episode of the third season of our podcast.

Liz and Brett are joined by Patrick Chavanelle, Senior R&D brewer, and potentially vintner, here at Allagash. We dive deep into the recent berry wines, berry wine/cider hybrids, and cider that we've created here at the brewery.

So pull up a chair and drink deeply of the fruit wine knowledge that Patrick has to impart!

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.120

<Brett Willis>This is From Maine, With Love, An Allagash Brewing Podcast, where we talk about beer, our community here in Maine, and things that generally make us happy.

00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:07.960

<Brett Willis>I feel like every time I say community, it's just hard.

00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:09.000

<Brett Willis>It's just a struggle.

00:00:23.712 --> 00:00:29.692

<Brett Willis>On this podcast episode, we have Patrick Chavanelle, Senior R&D Brewer and now, I think, Vintner.

00:00:30.812 --> 00:00:31.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>Is that what you called me?

00:00:31.752 --> 00:00:32.212

<Brett Willis>I don't know.

00:00:32.292 --> 00:00:32.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>OK.

00:00:32.892 --> 00:00:34.332

<Brett Willis>Isn't that a maker of wine?

00:00:34.352 --> 00:00:35.452

<Brett Willis>It might just be a seller of wine.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Wine maker?

00:00:36.772 --> 00:00:37.392

<Brett Willis>Wine maker.

00:00:37.412 --> 00:00:39.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, that just sounds weird to say out loud, actually.

00:00:40.152 --> 00:00:41.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>I liked the first thing that you said there.

00:00:41.972 --> 00:00:43.412

<Brett Willis>OK, Senior R&D Brewer.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>It's all research and development.

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<Brett Willis>It's tasting pretty good, so I'd say you did a good job.

00:00:46.972 --> 00:00:48.752

<Brett Willis>But yes, Senior R&D Brewer, officially.

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<Brett Willis>Liz Wilson, our Marketing Manager here.

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<Brett Willis>Hello.

00:00:51.852 --> 00:00:53.772

<Brett Willis>Liz, and then me, Brett.

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<Brett Willis>Senior Communication Specialist is my title, I guess.

00:00:57.392 --> 00:00:58.332

<Brett Willis>All right, start it.

00:00:59.332 --> 00:01:00.832

<Brett Willis>Secret questions.

00:01:01.452 --> 00:01:02.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>Where do we start with the secret question?

00:01:02.972 --> 00:01:03.412

<Brett Willis>Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:01:03.432 --> 00:01:06.272

<Brett Willis>You just got to, you know, you got to ease our way in here.

00:01:06.472 --> 00:01:08.352

<Brett Willis>Can't just immediately start talking about why.

00:01:08.372 --> 00:01:09.772

<Brett Willis>No, don't stress.

00:01:09.792 --> 00:01:10.652

<Brett Willis>You know what, Patrick?

00:01:10.772 --> 00:01:12.392

<Brett Willis>This is, I'll let you in on a secret.

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<Brett Willis>My aim for the secret questions is to get our guest excited to talk about something.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Well, dude, I'm already excited.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>I can't wait.

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<Brett Willis>I'll get you even more hyped up.

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<Brett Willis>What is currently fermenting in your home?

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<Patrick Chavanelle>In my home?

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, man.

00:01:30.632 --> 00:01:34.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's going to be such a disappointing answer because nothing.

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<Liz Wilson>Food or beverage?

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Maybe there's some food fermenting in my refrigerator.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>But I don't have anything related to that.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, there's nothing.

00:01:49.792 --> 00:01:51.012

<Brett Willis>Well, you made up some pizza dough.

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<Brett Willis>Yeah, I saw you eating some tasty looking pizza at lunch.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>I did that over the weekend, but there's nothing actively fermenting right now.

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<Brett Willis>Oh, I'm sorry.

00:02:00.152 --> 00:02:01.372

<Brett Willis>But I'm sorry.

00:02:03.172 --> 00:02:04.032

<Brett Willis>I'm disappointed.

00:02:04.412 --> 00:02:06.332

<Brett Willis>No, that's that it was...

00:02:06.532 --> 00:02:08.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>Can you cancel this so I can get something going?

00:02:08.352 --> 00:02:09.172

<Patrick Chavanelle>You can ask for that again.

00:02:09.192 --> 00:02:09.812

<Liz Wilson>I'll try again.

00:02:10.412 --> 00:02:11.572

<Brett Willis>I could definitely try again.

00:02:11.592 --> 00:02:14.312

<Brett Willis>All right, Liz, you're next.

00:02:14.592 --> 00:02:16.652

<Brett Willis>What are you learning to play on the piano currently?

00:02:17.612 --> 00:02:33.152

<Liz Wilson>Oh, gosh, this is like such a basic answer because I was watching the Grammys and I heard Fast Car and I loved that song growing up and it was amazing.

00:02:33.172 --> 00:02:38.092

<Liz Wilson>And of course, I went to piano class that week and I was like, I got to play Fast Car.

00:02:39.592 --> 00:02:45.712

<Liz Wilson>And I feel like me and everyone else in the world is listening to that song right now.

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<Liz Wilson>I play a very poor rendition and it's an interesting song because you think of it, I'm like, it's a slow song because you think of the...

00:03:02.152 --> 00:03:13.492

<Liz Wilson>But she sings quite fast and I'm not skilled enough to just play the piano, so I usually play the melody and it's pretty quick.

00:03:20.132 --> 00:03:22.732

<Brett Willis>There's a lot of mileage in the lyrics, so that's what we were kind of talking about.

00:03:22.732 --> 00:03:23.952

<Brett Willis>Do you know that song?

00:03:26.412 --> 00:03:29.172

<Brett Willis>For me, it's the best short story of a song ever.

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<Brett Willis>It goes so far, it's so powerful, awesome song.

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<Brett Willis>Do I have a secret question?

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<Liz Wilson>Yes.

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<Liz Wilson>Brett, do you have any interesting or unique nicknames that you grew up, that you're willing to share?

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Based on that smile, it looks like you do.

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<Brett Willis>There's only one, and it's actually like, it's a fun small story.

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<Brett Willis>But A, the first answer is no, because for some reason, nicknames have never stuck for me.

00:03:56.692 --> 00:04:03.292

<Brett Willis>Like, so the person has to just brute force the nickname on me and never stop calling me it, because otherwise it just doesn't stick around.

00:04:03.572 --> 00:04:09.452

<Brett Willis>But this one person at the last agency I worked at, he's one of the cleaning people, and he called me Big Dog Brett.

00:04:09.932 --> 00:04:18.472

<Brett Willis>And it started being that he would say Big Dog Brett, and then I would go, and it was just between me and him.

00:04:18.492 --> 00:04:21.872

<Brett Willis>And I liked it so much that I was like, yeah, okay, that could stick around.

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<Brett Willis>But that was it.

00:04:23.232 --> 00:04:28.912

<Liz Wilson>You called yourself Bort once, and I think I still like always want to call you Bort.

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<Brett Willis>Yeah, that's a good name.

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<Liz Wilson>Because it just makes me smile.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

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<Brett Willis>And actually, I also sometimes I add to that, if you go like left two keys on the keyboard, my last name is Willis, it turns it into Wookus, like W-U-K-K-U-S.

00:04:42.292 --> 00:04:44.432

<Brett Willis>So Bort Wookus is like my alter ego.

00:04:44.752 --> 00:04:47.032

<Brett Willis>If I'm like, I don't even know what I do with that.

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<Brett Willis>But yes.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>That's your ghost name for the books that you're going to be writing in the future.

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<Liz Wilson>Exactly.

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<Brett Willis>Once I can do the tell-all.

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<Liz Wilson>Yes.

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<Brett Willis>All right.

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<Brett Willis>To the topic at hand, we're here to talk about wine, and it looks like a little bit of cider too.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Technically, cider is blind.

00:05:04.492 --> 00:05:05.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>We don't have to go there.

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<Brett Willis>Oh my goodness.

00:05:06.892 --> 00:05:07.552

<Brett Willis>No, let's start there.

00:05:07.572 --> 00:05:08.652

<Brett Willis>That's actually the first thing.

00:05:08.672 --> 00:05:15.132

<Brett Willis>So I don't think we need to go super down the rabbit hole, but let's start with just a definitional thing so we can define stuff.

00:05:15.392 --> 00:05:17.052

<Brett Willis>What is beer and what is wine?

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Beer is a beverage that consists of four ingredients.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>It's water, malt, yeast, and hops.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>That makes beer.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>There's a very thorough process to do that, obviously.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>But essentially, just from an ingredients perspective, that's kind of what it boils down to.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>For wine, not everyone, I know I just said cider is wine, not everyone shares that opinion.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>But when you're looking at it from a process perspective, it's so, so similar.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>And the more important thing is it's not beer.

00:06:03.252 --> 00:06:07.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>And you need to, like a brewer can't go into it with a brewer mindset.

00:06:08.632 --> 00:06:18.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>If they do, it's a very simple thing to do, just from a processing perspective, because with beer, beer is so complicated.

00:06:18.792 --> 00:06:22.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>There are so many aspects of the process.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>And if you're talking about a specific ingredient too, like hops, you could dedicate your whole life to learning one kind of like minute area of hop production and processing.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>And you'll have like a lifetime of work and research around that.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>And that's one tiny, tiny thing in the grand scheme of beer ingredients and brewing in general.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>That's not to take away the importance of stuff in like the wine world, because like similar things can be said, but from like, if you're looking at it just from an ingredients perspective, there's just one ingredient generally for wine.

00:07:09.492 --> 00:07:11.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>For traditional wine, you know, it's grapes.

00:07:12.752 --> 00:07:16.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it's crazy to think that it's just one thing.

00:07:17.232 --> 00:07:26.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>And all you have to do is crush it and then pitch some yeast into it or not, just have it ferment and it'll become wine.

00:07:26.892 --> 00:07:37.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's a lot of minutiae in that process in terms of the proper way to go about that and what you need to do in order to bake something that's really good.

00:07:39.552 --> 00:07:47.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>But I guess to break it down for like the basic perspective for ingredients, like I guess that's the difference.

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<Brett Willis>Sure.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>With beer, those four ingredients, take one away.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>It's not beer.

00:07:53.392 --> 00:07:55.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>Well, yeah, take one away.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>For a second, I was like, take yeast out, but like spontaneous beer, there's some yeast in there.

00:08:00.352 --> 00:08:03.332

<Brett Willis>I think from how you're describing the wine, yeast is kind of part of that.

00:08:03.492 --> 00:08:05.012

<Brett Willis>Like it's the two, I guess.

00:08:05.032 --> 00:08:05.872

<Brett Willis>It's the berry.

00:08:05.892 --> 00:08:09.732

<Brett Willis>Well, but you can get the yeast spontaneously in beer as well.

00:08:09.752 --> 00:08:11.912

<Brett Willis>There's some gray areas, but I think I get it.

00:08:11.932 --> 00:08:13.412

<Brett Willis>I think it makes all sense.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>So yeah, I think those are the differences.

00:08:16.972 --> 00:08:21.112

<Brett Willis>Well, also, I think we should add to like, you're not just kind of shooting from the hip here.

00:08:21.132 --> 00:08:29.032

<Brett Willis>Like you're actually taking a class in wine making or you take taking classes and now you're taking a more something class.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, something like that.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>So like going back a few years ago when we first started getting interested in making cider, you know, with the understanding that we can't just jump into it with brewing knowledge that we need to actually have a better understanding of how to do this properly.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>Myself and Zach Boda, who's our QC manager, we took a class through Cina.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>They're the Cider Institute of North America.

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<Patrick Chavanelle>And it was kind of like their general production class.

00:09:02.012 --> 00:09:06.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>So you learn like this is how cider is made basically.

00:09:07.212 --> 00:09:13.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it was very sort of just taught from like a broad perspective.

00:09:14.392 --> 00:09:31.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>Didn't go into too many specifics from like the scientific perspective, which is something that I'm very interested in once I get to become addicted into a certain hobby or process or whatever it is.

00:09:32.612 --> 00:09:41.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we took that, and that was pretty helpful in just learning how to make wine in general, because again, it's very similar.

00:09:41.552 --> 00:09:44.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>You know, there are some differences when you're comparing it to something like grapes.

00:09:45.492 --> 00:09:55.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>And even to make grape wine or wine wine, as people know it, you know, there's a lot of differences in terms of making red wines and white wines.

00:09:55.532 --> 00:09:59.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>So I guess to go back to your question, we took that course.

00:10:00.692 --> 00:10:11.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>Boda had taken a course through UC Davis of just like the introduction to, I don't know, wine making, I guess it was called something along those lines.

00:10:12.292 --> 00:10:20.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>I took that, learned a bit more, wanted some more information, and then I enrolled in their wine making certification program.

00:10:20.472 --> 00:10:24.772

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I'm taking the wine production course through that right now.

00:10:24.892 --> 00:10:26.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>So, learning a lot.

00:10:26.812 --> 00:10:28.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>I just had to write a paper this past week.

00:10:28.492 --> 00:10:29.592

<Brett Willis>Very exciting.

00:10:29.612 --> 00:10:30.752

<Liz Wilson>I had no idea.

00:10:30.852 --> 00:10:34.932

<Liz Wilson>I just thought you were sort of like a mad scientist over at one of the buildings.

00:10:34.952 --> 00:10:37.092

<Liz Wilson>I was just like, let's figure this out.

00:10:37.112 --> 00:10:38.132

<Liz Wilson>But I'm really glad to hear.

00:10:38.152 --> 00:10:39.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>I mean, it's a bit of both.

00:10:39.872 --> 00:10:40.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>I'm not going to lie.

00:10:41.572 --> 00:10:47.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>But when I become interested in something, it's become sort of an obsession to some extent.

00:10:47.632 --> 00:10:48.652

<Liz Wilson>I really like that about you.

00:10:50.092 --> 00:10:51.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, I don't know if my wife would say the same.

00:10:53.672 --> 00:10:59.512

<Brett Willis>Well, I know whenever I have an interest in something, I know if I ask you about it, you're going to have some good information about it.

00:10:59.532 --> 00:11:01.352

<Brett Willis>So it's always, I appreciate it.

00:11:01.532 --> 00:11:07.652

<Brett Willis>And I feel like it's also worth adding, like Jason, our brewmaster, it's like a lifelong thing of his making cider.

00:11:07.772 --> 00:11:11.752

<Brett Willis>Like he's been making cider with his family, right, for like ever?

00:11:11.992 --> 00:11:34.512

<Liz Wilson>Yeah, I feel like, because I knew why we started on the cider train because Jason has a lifelong love for it, and we have a lot of like amazing local apple varieties that I feel like are worth experimenting with here, plus, you know, offering another option that is less glutinous in our tasting room.

00:11:34.772 --> 00:11:38.292

<Liz Wilson>But I guess I sort of missed where the wine started.

00:11:39.392 --> 00:11:40.552

<Brett Willis>That's the good question.

00:11:42.492 --> 00:11:43.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>That is a good question.

00:11:43.472 --> 00:11:44.352

<Patrick Chavanelle>Where did it start?

00:11:45.572 --> 00:11:51.832

<Liz Wilson>Because I feel like, didn't we get with our cider making license, since it was like bonus, you can make wine?

00:11:51.872 --> 00:11:52.812

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:52.952 --> 00:11:56.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>I mean, it's a winery permit.

00:11:57.252 --> 00:11:58.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>That's what essentially it is.

00:11:59.372 --> 00:12:11.892

<Patrick Chavanelle>So that allows us to make both cider and any fruit wine and to then blend any of those individual components together to come up with something.

00:12:12.312 --> 00:12:13.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>That's pretty cool.

00:12:13.252 --> 00:12:14.232

<Liz Wilson>Is that how it started?

00:12:15.392 --> 00:12:17.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>No, you know, so it started with cider for sure.

00:12:17.972 --> 00:12:26.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think once we started going with cider, it just seemed like, you know, I'm trying to think and talk at the same time.

00:12:26.272 --> 00:12:27.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>I don't know when it actually started.

00:12:29.732 --> 00:12:32.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>I think there's just interest in something else.

00:12:32.792 --> 00:12:38.812

<Patrick Chavanelle>You know, right now we pour cider in the tasting room, and it's delicious.

00:12:39.752 --> 00:12:44.072

<Patrick Chavanelle>I will say that initially the intention was to have something that was gluten free.

00:12:44.512 --> 00:12:54.352

<Patrick Chavanelle>But I honestly think that just hearing from feedback from folks in our tasting room, people were just more looking for a beer alternative.

00:12:55.792 --> 00:13:27.592

<Patrick Chavanelle>Whether it's an individual getting brought to the brew, someone who's a super fan or just really likes beer in general, just having something available that's not beer for them to drink, I think it sort of outweighs the fact that it is, I mean, we don't call it gluten-free because of some of the shared equipment and processing, but a low gluten option to have in there.

00:13:27.612 --> 00:13:37.832

<Liz Wilson>Yeah, and I feel it's just more and more common that you're finding multiple offerings in tasting rooms now, I think, you know, making sure we have that available is awesome.

00:13:38.072 --> 00:13:42.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it really started, so blueberry wine specifically, I guess, if that's what we're talking about.

00:13:43.092 --> 00:13:47.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>That was kind of the first foray into something outside of just apples.

00:13:47.892 --> 00:13:52.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's not something that's entirely unique to us.

00:13:52.552 --> 00:14:02.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>And, you know, folks have made blueberry wine, we are right down the road from where we are trying to orient myself, right down industrial way, RAS.

00:14:02.832 --> 00:14:04.572

<Patrick Chavanelle>They make blueberry wine there.

00:14:05.532 --> 00:14:06.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>Blue-wet.

00:14:06.732 --> 00:14:08.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>They've been making blueberry wine for quite a while.

00:14:08.772 --> 00:14:12.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it wasn't something that was new to the market.

00:14:13.512 --> 00:14:24.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it seemed like because we had this knowledge now of how to make cider, we thought it would be fun to experiment and do a trial of blueberry wine, which is what we did.

00:14:24.532 --> 00:14:27.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>So the first thing that we actually did was just something very small.

00:14:28.132 --> 00:14:38.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>I bought like 150 pounds, used the press that we have here, which I think was another catalyst for being like, oh, we have all the equipment.

00:14:38.072 --> 00:14:39.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>Why can't we just try this out?

00:14:41.312 --> 00:14:42.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>And yeah, we did one.

00:14:42.732 --> 00:14:44.792

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was just 10 gallons to begin with.

00:14:45.292 --> 00:14:53.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>We actually, it worked out so well that we poured that log during Indigenous People's Day last year.

00:14:55.252 --> 00:15:04.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>Because we have historically worked with Passamaquoddy to integrate their wild blueberries into beer.

00:15:04.692 --> 00:15:09.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>And because we had that on hand, we thought it would be fun to offer that.

00:15:10.292 --> 00:15:11.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>It went over well.

00:15:11.212 --> 00:15:15.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>And that was sort of like the catalyst to be like, okay, well, maybe we should do more of this.

00:15:15.452 --> 00:15:15.772

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:15:15.792 --> 00:15:21.192

<Liz Wilson>I think it like kicked in a day or two because I remember being like, nope, we don't need to promote it again.

00:15:21.212 --> 00:15:21.772

<Liz Wilson>I think it's gone.

00:15:21.852 --> 00:15:22.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:15:22.172 --> 00:15:22.892

<Brett Willis>Social media.

00:15:22.912 --> 00:15:23.992

<Brett Willis>Do you still have the wine?

00:15:24.012 --> 00:15:24.752

<Brett Willis>I said, no, no.

00:15:25.792 --> 00:15:26.152

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:15:26.512 --> 00:15:34.152

<Brett Willis>And I mean, I remember that in particular coming so out of left field and being such a delight because it was just kind of like, we're a brewery.

00:15:34.172 --> 00:15:36.052

<Brett Willis>And we made some said, what did the blueberry wine?

00:15:36.072 --> 00:15:40.092

<Brett Willis>And then we just like, and it was like, as we've said before, really fricking good.

00:15:40.512 --> 00:15:42.592

<Brett Willis>And we have some right here.

00:15:42.612 --> 00:15:42.792

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:15:43.132 --> 00:15:43.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:15:43.772 --> 00:15:45.352

<Patrick Chavanelle>So that's the first sample.

00:15:47.672 --> 00:15:51.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>You know, it's because when you're comparing it to wine...

00:15:51.132 --> 00:15:52.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, can I back up for a second?

00:15:52.992 --> 00:15:53.312

<Brett Willis>No.

00:15:54.812 --> 00:15:56.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>When you're comparing it to wine, no.

00:15:56.472 --> 00:15:57.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>Go for it.

00:15:57.852 --> 00:16:04.572

<Patrick Chavanelle>One thing I wanted to mention, which we just did, I think, last week, is we changed the name of blueberry wine to wild blueberry wine.

00:16:04.592 --> 00:16:04.812

<Patrick Chavanelle>Right.

00:16:06.032 --> 00:16:15.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>And, you know, I put way too much thought into why we should make this name change, but really it boiled down to a bunch of things.

00:16:16.772 --> 00:16:28.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>I think because of the fact that it's made with wild blueberries, and wild blueberries are so distinct, it's actually a different species than your typical grocery store blueberry.

00:16:29.792 --> 00:16:30.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>They taste way better.

00:16:31.712 --> 00:16:34.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>They're better for you when you're eating it in the raw form.

00:16:36.872 --> 00:16:40.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>And, you know, there's a million other reasons why they're so good.

00:16:40.912 --> 00:16:52.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>I think, and the fact that that's all we use in this wine, I think it helps honor the fruit, as well as the folks who cultivate the land.

00:16:53.092 --> 00:16:53.372

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:16:53.372 --> 00:16:56.832

<Brett Willis>Aren't they like hand harvesting all these?

00:16:56.932 --> 00:16:58.012

<Brett Willis>It's the low bush thing.

00:16:58.032 --> 00:17:04.712

<Brett Willis>Yeah, it's like a little rake with a bunch of long teeth, and you just start literally raking the bush, and it's intense.

00:17:04.732 --> 00:17:06.732

<Brett Willis>Yeah, it is.

00:17:06.752 --> 00:17:10.872

<Liz Wilson>If you have the opportunity to come to Maine in August.

00:17:11.192 --> 00:17:12.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, August, September.

00:17:13.832 --> 00:17:16.332

<Liz Wilson>Poke around for some wild blueberries.

00:17:16.352 --> 00:17:21.752

<Liz Wilson>They are a special treat, and Mainers love them a lot.

00:17:21.772 --> 00:17:24.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, they're so good.

00:17:24.092 --> 00:17:30.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>So anyways, we decided to call it wild blueberry wine because that's what made it.

00:17:30.292 --> 00:17:31.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>That's what it's made of.

00:17:35.052 --> 00:17:38.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>So anyways, did you ask me a question before that?

00:17:38.772 --> 00:17:40.672

<Brett Willis>I was just asking, can we just describe this wine?

00:17:40.692 --> 00:17:42.772

<Brett Willis>I feel like we've got it in front of us.

00:17:42.832 --> 00:17:49.792

<Brett Willis>So I think just talking about profile, what it compares to for people who've never tried a blueberry wine.

00:17:50.752 --> 00:17:54.312

<Patrick Chavanelle>So the first thing that I wanted to mention is just alcohol.

00:17:55.152 --> 00:18:00.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>When you're comparing it to grape wine, the alcohol is much lower.

00:18:00.892 --> 00:18:11.312

<Patrick Chavanelle>So although it's the same process, we take a similar amount of fruit, get the same amount of yield more or less in terms of juice, the alcohol is a lot lower.

00:18:12.152 --> 00:18:17.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>That has mostly to do with just the amount of available sugars that's in the fruit to begin with.

00:18:18.172 --> 00:18:24.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>When you're talking about grapes, it's closer to trying to think of a different way to put this.

00:18:24.412 --> 00:18:26.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's just very high sugar content.

00:18:27.632 --> 00:18:31.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>The winemakers speak in terms of bricks.

00:18:31.272 --> 00:18:33.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>I guess for comparison sake, it might make sense.

00:18:33.932 --> 00:18:44.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>Wine grapes are around 20 to 26 bricks or anywhere in between there, which would make for anywhere from like a 10% to 14% wine.

00:18:45.452 --> 00:18:52.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>With blueberries, they don't have the same amount of available sugar.

00:18:53.652 --> 00:19:02.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's closer to 10 to 12 bricks, which means it's going to be around five and a half to six and a half percent alcohol.

00:19:03.232 --> 00:19:03.812

<Brett Willis>That's cool.

00:19:04.232 --> 00:19:11.372

<Brett Willis>I feel like another notable factor or like aspect of this is tartness, because it definitely has a little bit of acidity to it.

00:19:11.392 --> 00:19:24.072

<Brett Willis>And it's cool because I feel like you're used to in wine thinking you're finding acidity, but actually finding like tannic, you know, kind of like that you can kind of feel on the roof of your mouth, whereas like this is kind of the opposite.

00:19:24.092 --> 00:19:25.572

<Brett Willis>It's like not really tannic.

00:19:26.212 --> 00:19:29.992

<Brett Willis>It has some tannic qualities to it, but it's more like tart.

00:19:30.132 --> 00:19:30.872

<Brett Willis>Is that correct?

00:19:31.212 --> 00:19:31.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>I think so.

00:19:31.892 --> 00:19:40.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think the fact that it's carbonated, which is another thing worth noting, sort of elevates that acid character.

00:19:42.092 --> 00:19:53.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>But it's tart in like a refreshing way, I guess, is the way I would put it, not in like a mouth puckering kind of hurts when it goes down.

00:19:53.752 --> 00:19:56.492

<Brett Willis>Yeah, like hurting your jaw, making your jaw crunch.

00:19:56.652 --> 00:19:58.212

<Brett Willis>Now, I'm trying to think of what would be like the...

00:19:58.412 --> 00:19:59.872

<Brett Willis>I don't know.

00:20:00.132 --> 00:20:03.432

<Brett Willis>I'm trying to think of the equivalent of tartness that is in this.

00:20:03.432 --> 00:20:03.792

<Brett Willis>It's like a...

00:20:03.812 --> 00:20:06.232

<Brett Willis>I don't want to say lemonade, because that makes you think of sweetness.

00:20:06.252 --> 00:20:07.052

<Brett Willis>But I don't know.

00:20:07.072 --> 00:20:08.092

<Brett Willis>It's not even that tart.

00:20:08.332 --> 00:20:11.832

<Brett Willis>It's just a little bit of acidity that's super nice.

00:20:12.832 --> 00:20:18.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>And then the other thing about this that I think is very cool, and it sort of makes it unique to us is...

00:20:18.432 --> 00:20:23.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>Well, one, the fact that it's made entirely of wild blueberries, that's unique to us.

00:20:24.692 --> 00:20:25.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>I don't know of...

00:20:26.092 --> 00:20:37.312

<Patrick Chavanelle>I could be wrong here, but I don't know of any other place in Maine that is making a blueberry wine solely with wild blueberries.

00:20:38.192 --> 00:20:39.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>So that's fairly unique.

00:20:40.692 --> 00:20:42.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>The other thing is the yeast that we use.

00:20:43.672 --> 00:20:48.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>The yeast was isolated out of a cool shit barrel.

00:20:49.052 --> 00:20:51.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we have a program internally.

00:20:51.712 --> 00:20:53.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, man, I can go down a whole rack in a minute.

00:20:53.472 --> 00:20:55.432

<Brett Willis>I was going to say, how are you going to do this?

00:20:55.612 --> 00:20:57.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>We don't have too much time here, Patrick.

00:20:57.952 --> 00:21:06.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>Anyways, it was like a brewing yeast strain that was isolated out of a barrel of our spontaneously fermented beer.

00:21:07.312 --> 00:21:09.272

<Patrick Chavanelle>So the yeast strain is unique to us.

00:21:09.292 --> 00:21:11.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>Nobody else in the world has this yeast strain.

00:21:12.072 --> 00:21:14.592

<Patrick Chavanelle>And the strain came from Maine.

00:21:15.312 --> 00:21:17.352

<Patrick Chavanelle>So I think that's pretty special.

00:21:17.372 --> 00:21:19.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>So blueberries came from Maine, yeast came from Maine.

00:21:19.892 --> 00:21:23.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's not a naturally fermented, but it's still local to us.

00:21:24.252 --> 00:21:25.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think hyper local.

00:21:25.592 --> 00:21:26.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>Hyper local.

00:21:26.472 --> 00:21:27.452

<Brett Willis>It's literally here.

00:21:29.012 --> 00:21:35.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think the yeast that we use sort of helps elevate those fruity characteristics in the wine.

00:21:36.132 --> 00:21:40.012

<Brett Willis>What made you, because with the cider, we've used a Pet Nat strain.

00:21:40.032 --> 00:21:43.232

<Brett Willis>What made you decide Cool Ship strain versus that Pet Nat?

00:21:43.532 --> 00:21:45.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>For that specific reason.

00:21:45.552 --> 00:21:46.272

<Patrick Chavanelle>Ah, nice.

00:21:46.712 --> 00:21:47.072

<Patrick Chavanelle>Story.

00:21:47.092 --> 00:21:52.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>I was like, you know, it would be really cool if this works out, because it just would be a really nice story, too.

00:21:52.872 --> 00:21:52.972

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:21:52.992 --> 00:21:54.172

<Patrick Chavanelle>And in the end, it worked out.

00:21:54.492 --> 00:21:56.272

<Brett Willis>Yeah, because it tastes really good.

00:21:56.292 --> 00:22:06.772

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, and it was tricky, because in an ideal world, at least from my perspective, when we're doing something new, it's always helpful to trial a bunch of different yeast strains.

00:22:07.232 --> 00:22:12.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>We couldn't do that with the blueberry wine when we first started because of the process.

00:22:13.792 --> 00:22:23.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>Essentially, what you do is you take fruits, you pulverize them somehow, mush them up to allow all the juices to come out.

00:22:23.752 --> 00:22:31.912

<Patrick Chavanelle>They undergo what's called a maceration fermentation, and maceration just really refers to liquid being in contact with the skins and seeds.

00:22:33.092 --> 00:22:35.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>And you pitch the yeast in that process.

00:22:35.692 --> 00:22:49.072

<Patrick Chavanelle>So unless I was doing a bunch of different smaller tiny batches, which wouldn't make a ton of sense, I had to sort of commit to one in the first place and cross my fingers that it was going to be good.

00:22:49.532 --> 00:22:50.632

<Brett Willis>That's awesome.

00:22:51.532 --> 00:22:52.412

<Brett Willis>I just have a quick aside.

00:22:53.232 --> 00:23:01.792

<Brett Willis>Like that yeast strain, I mean, when we talk about our cool ship beers and spontaneous fermentation, that yeast strain can take like years to fully ferment out that sort of thing.

00:23:01.812 --> 00:23:04.832

<Brett Willis>So like in this process, it didn't take that long or how long did it take?

00:23:04.892 --> 00:23:05.912

<Patrick Chavanelle>No, it's a normal.

00:23:05.932 --> 00:23:14.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's a normal Saccharomyces cerevisiae strain, which you can use in work and it'll ferment out just fine.

00:23:14.192 --> 00:23:35.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>And we just caught it in a particular time in the life cycle of the spontaneous cool ship beer, where it was present enough that it was able to be like isolated, that it showed up on a plate and we could isolate it and kind of propagate it up from there.

00:23:36.392 --> 00:23:41.172

<Patrick Chavanelle>So they are in those barrels at certain periods of time.

00:23:43.032 --> 00:23:52.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>However, the amount that are in there is, you know, you need a certain amount of yeast in order to ferment something rapidly.

00:23:52.612 --> 00:23:58.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>When there's only a tiny amount in there, it's just going to slowly kind of chip away at sugars.

00:23:59.192 --> 00:24:01.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>So I guess that's like really the big difference.

00:24:01.452 --> 00:24:02.792

<Brett Willis>OK, that makes sense.

00:24:03.472 --> 00:24:05.952

<Liz Wilson>And you know in the process when to...

00:24:06.392 --> 00:24:07.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was a guess.

00:24:08.072 --> 00:24:10.712

<Liz Wilson>I was like, geez Louise, that's incredible.

00:24:10.732 --> 00:24:15.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>We tested a bunch of barrels, and we just were lucky.

00:24:16.052 --> 00:24:19.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>Finding yeast strains like that is difficult.

00:24:21.052 --> 00:24:24.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>And a lot of times when we've done this before, it just doesn't work out.

00:24:24.052 --> 00:24:29.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>You'll do six, eight, ten different fermentations, and you can't find anything.

00:24:29.312 --> 00:24:37.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's pretty special when you can find one, and you just really hope that it's actually good, and not just sort of like, this isn't special at all.

00:24:37.552 --> 00:24:38.832

<Brett Willis>Yeah, that's really cool.

00:24:38.852 --> 00:24:42.152

<Liz Wilson>Well, that makes this even more exciting than I ever even knew.

00:24:43.352 --> 00:24:44.072

<Brett Willis>That's awesome.

00:24:44.072 --> 00:24:50.592

<Patrick Chavanelle>All right, so this next one, I guess as I was saying with the blueberry wine, this is nothing new.

00:24:50.612 --> 00:24:57.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>You know, folks have been making blueberry wine for however long, I don't know, a hundred years, a couple hundred years.

00:24:57.992 --> 00:24:58.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>People make it right now.

00:24:58.972 --> 00:25:00.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, yeah.

00:25:00.532 --> 00:25:02.132

<Brett Willis>I don't know that history.

00:25:02.152 --> 00:25:02.572

<Patrick Chavanelle>Neither do I.

00:25:04.112 --> 00:25:10.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>With the second one, I think this is fairly unique and special, really.

00:25:11.192 --> 00:25:13.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>This is made with honey berries.

00:25:14.672 --> 00:25:23.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>So honey berries are a fruit that we've worked with in beer many, many times for the last, I don't even know how many years.

00:25:24.212 --> 00:25:24.732

<Brett Willis>Three?

00:25:24.932 --> 00:25:25.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>Sure, three plus.

00:25:25.692 --> 00:25:28.252

<Brett Willis>I feel like it's like turned into a honey berry town over here.

00:25:28.272 --> 00:25:32.792

<Liz Wilson>Brett and I were joking last podcast that we have a mild obsession with honey berries.

00:25:32.912 --> 00:25:33.552

<Brett Willis>Well, yeah.

00:25:33.592 --> 00:25:45.852

<Brett Willis>There's also the running joke that our brewmaster has a controlling share in a honey berry farm that we get all our honey berries from, which is coincidentally called Allagash View Farms, I believe.

00:25:46.272 --> 00:25:50.812

<Brett Willis>So we think he's secretly doing a scheme to sell it.

00:25:50.832 --> 00:25:51.392

<Brett Willis>That's a joke.

00:25:51.412 --> 00:25:52.192

<Brett Willis>He's definitely not.

00:25:52.212 --> 00:25:54.512

<Brett Willis>Honey berries are really good, but it's just too funny.

00:25:55.792 --> 00:26:04.892

<Patrick Chavanelle>So because we have been working with them for a while and in beer, they have this like Venice character that I thought was really cool.

00:26:06.212 --> 00:26:09.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>We figured it was worth trying to see if we can make a wine with it.

00:26:10.532 --> 00:26:14.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>We did a trial similar to what we did with blueberry wine.

00:26:14.172 --> 00:26:17.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was just a small fermentation, 10 gallons.

00:26:18.292 --> 00:26:21.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>With this one, I think we did use the Pet Nat Yeast strain.

00:26:22.212 --> 00:26:27.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it was so acidic that it was undrinkable.

00:26:34.032 --> 00:26:34.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>It smelled amazing.

00:26:34.852 --> 00:26:35.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was so good.

00:26:36.432 --> 00:26:40.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>But from an acid perspective, undrinkable.

00:26:40.732 --> 00:26:41.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was disgusting.

00:26:41.632 --> 00:26:42.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>You couldn't do it.

00:26:42.852 --> 00:26:44.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>It would burn going down.

00:26:46.472 --> 00:27:02.272

<Patrick Chavanelle>And that's because if you're looking at it from purely an acid basis, there's a test you can do called titratable acidity, where when you're comparing it to something like cider, cider is probably around 7, a TA of 7, titratable acidity.

00:27:03.452 --> 00:27:11.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>And then if you use that same sort of measurement for honey berry wine on its own, it's about 25.

00:27:12.692 --> 00:27:14.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's incredibly, incredibly sour.

00:27:14.872 --> 00:27:34.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>I looked for ways to biologically reduce that sourness, so you can encourage what's called malolactic fermentation, where if you pitch a certain bacteria, it will consume malic acid and then convert it into lactic acid.

00:27:34.512 --> 00:27:38.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's also an acid, but not all acids are the same.

00:27:39.552 --> 00:27:42.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>Some can be more harsh than others.

00:27:42.672 --> 00:27:47.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>Lactic is like a softer cleaner acid, whereas malic is just a little more aggressive.

00:27:48.492 --> 00:27:49.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we did a trial like that.

00:27:49.652 --> 00:27:52.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>It did reduce it, but it was still too much.

00:27:54.132 --> 00:28:08.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>And we had done this, and we realized that on its own, we couldn't make something that was like a solo, this is just made with honey berries kind of thing.

00:28:10.592 --> 00:28:13.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>And knowing that, we still committed to doing something bigger.

00:28:15.072 --> 00:28:26.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>So the following year, season, harvest, whatever you want to call it, we got pretty much a similar amount of honey berries than we did to blueberries, and we did a full scale batch.

00:28:26.912 --> 00:28:35.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>Had it ferment on its own in one vessel, and I had maybe 25 gallons left over that I didn't really have a home for.

00:28:35.972 --> 00:28:42.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>We had an extra bourbon barrel from a beer that we just didn't have enough beer to fill it in.

00:28:42.752 --> 00:28:50.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>So I put honey berry wine in that, topped it off with some cider, and kind of just let it sit and do its thing for months.

00:28:52.672 --> 00:28:56.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>Pulled a sample off of that, and it was incredible.

00:28:57.012 --> 00:29:03.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>I'm pretty sure I giggled out loud the first time I sipped it, because I was like, oh my god, this is it.

00:29:03.792 --> 00:29:15.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was still too tart, like still too tart, but it was almost to the point where it was just pleasant and not burn your esophagus tart.

00:29:16.552 --> 00:29:21.772

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we took that barrel, we ended up blending it with another barrel of cider.

00:29:22.512 --> 00:29:28.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>So in theory, there's more cider in here than there is actual honey berry wine.

00:29:30.252 --> 00:29:36.212

<Patrick Chavanelle>But when you're smelling it and tasting it and looking at it, like it looks like a red wine.

00:29:36.832 --> 00:29:42.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>And when you're comparing it to blueberry wine, which is around 5%, this is 8.4%.

00:29:42.632 --> 00:29:42.812

<Brett Willis>Sure.

00:29:43.892 --> 00:29:44.512

<Brett Willis>For ABV.

00:29:44.732 --> 00:29:45.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>ABV.

00:29:46.592 --> 00:29:51.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it smells like a wine, it tastes like a wine.

00:29:52.352 --> 00:29:58.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>We serve it still, which is something that we've never done before, never intentionally done.

00:29:58.452 --> 00:30:00.552

<Patrick Chavanelle>There was one cool shit beer that didn't fully carbonate.

00:30:00.692 --> 00:30:01.452

<Brett Willis>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:01.772 --> 00:30:02.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>Bartis, is that what it was?

00:30:02.952 --> 00:30:03.992

<Brett Willis>Bartis, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:30:04.012 --> 00:30:04.372

<Liz Wilson>That was a hit.

00:30:04.392 --> 00:30:05.592

<Brett Willis>Because it was like super slow fermentation.

00:30:05.612 --> 00:30:05.892

<Patrick Chavanelle>Was it?

00:30:06.232 --> 00:30:07.552

<Liz Wilson>I mean, yeah.

00:30:07.552 --> 00:30:08.792

<Brett Willis>I don't know if you were being facetious.

00:30:09.732 --> 00:30:10.812

<Liz Wilson>It was super interesting.

00:30:11.712 --> 00:30:19.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>So the fact that we, you know, like tasting it out of the barrel, it just did not feel like carbonation would do anything.

00:30:19.772 --> 00:30:20.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>It would probably take away from it.

00:30:21.212 --> 00:30:21.532

<Brett Willis>Sure.

00:30:22.412 --> 00:30:32.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>And so we went with still how we're serving it right now, because this is still a fairly new thing for us, is on the warmer side to, you know, similar.

00:30:32.692 --> 00:30:39.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>We're trying to like treat it like you would a wine, because really that's what it is.

00:30:39.172 --> 00:30:42.952

<Brett Willis>I mean, this does honestly drink like a Merlot or something like that.

00:30:42.972 --> 00:30:47.512

<Brett Willis>Like it actually has, I think you could fool somebody by just giving them this nib.

00:30:47.612 --> 00:30:51.632

<Brett Willis>Oh, you know, what vintage, what, like, if you told them, didn't tell them anything about what it was.

00:30:51.852 --> 00:30:52.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>I think so too.

00:30:52.792 --> 00:30:53.072

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:30:53.492 --> 00:30:56.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think this, you know, blueberry wine is special.

00:30:56.872 --> 00:30:57.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>Don't get me wrong.

00:30:58.452 --> 00:31:03.772

<Patrick Chavanelle>This, I don't know of anyone out there that's doing anything quite like this.

00:31:04.072 --> 00:31:04.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:31:04.792 --> 00:31:16.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it's things like this that really get me excited about, you know, what else is there that we could be looking into and making and offering people that come here.

00:31:16.112 --> 00:31:16.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:31:17.092 --> 00:31:18.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>And yeah, I don't know.

00:31:18.492 --> 00:31:23.272

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's like the wine world just, it's a whole rabbit hole you can go down.

00:31:23.752 --> 00:31:24.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it's been really fun.

00:31:24.752 --> 00:31:36.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>And honestly, the more I learn about wines and the process, the more excited I get in terms of using that knowledge in the beer side of things.

00:31:36.752 --> 00:31:36.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>Sure.

00:31:37.812 --> 00:31:39.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>We've already done that once.

00:31:39.472 --> 00:31:42.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>We got some grapes up from Presque Isle.

00:31:43.532 --> 00:31:45.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's these grapes called Brianna grapes.

00:31:45.572 --> 00:31:47.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>They're a hybridized white grape variety.

00:31:49.352 --> 00:31:54.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>We got them in and put some of our Cool Ship beer on it.

00:31:54.852 --> 00:32:11.552

<Patrick Chavanelle>And because of things that I had learned through classes and whatnot, two things that happen when you're undergoing that like maceration fermentation, well, I shouldn't say two, but I guess two things came to mind for me is you're going to be pulling color from the grape skins.

00:32:12.292 --> 00:32:17.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's a compound called anthocyanins that's responsible for color.

00:32:19.072 --> 00:32:20.832

<Brett Willis>That was too good a term.

00:32:20.852 --> 00:32:39.272

<Patrick Chavanelle>Honey berries are very high in anthocyanins, which is why it retains that like real bright red color to the point where when I pressed this in the large batch, I had red hands basically for three days.

00:32:40.092 --> 00:32:42.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>And the day I pressed it, it was in the summertime.

00:32:44.292 --> 00:32:52.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>And we were taking our kids to this like golf course pool, because our friends are members there.

00:32:52.892 --> 00:32:55.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I was like sitting by the pool.

00:32:55.472 --> 00:32:56.912

<Patrick Chavanelle>My kids were like, come in, come in.

00:32:56.932 --> 00:33:02.072

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I was like, I don't know if I get in this pool if I'm actually going to stain the water red.

00:33:02.192 --> 00:33:04.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>I honestly didn't know if that was going to happen.

00:33:04.872 --> 00:33:05.352

<Patrick Chavanelle>It didn't.

00:33:06.532 --> 00:33:08.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>But my hands were red for like three days.

00:33:10.152 --> 00:33:11.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's like very high in color.

00:33:11.692 --> 00:33:14.392

<Liz Wilson>The berries are the gift that just keeps on coming.

00:33:14.552 --> 00:33:16.232

<Brett Willis>Every time you describe them, it just gets worse.

00:33:16.872 --> 00:33:18.412

<Brett Willis>It's like you can't describe what they look like.

00:33:19.092 --> 00:33:21.132

<Brett Willis>The flavor is like, I don't know what it's like.

00:33:21.152 --> 00:33:22.272

<Brett Willis>But honestly, they're good.

00:33:22.332 --> 00:33:23.372

<Brett Willis>And this is super tasty.

00:33:23.392 --> 00:33:25.112

<Brett Willis>So don't think this comes out well.

00:33:25.632 --> 00:33:27.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>And where was I going with that?

00:33:28.312 --> 00:33:28.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, sorry.

00:33:28.752 --> 00:33:29.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>Cool Ship.

00:33:29.172 --> 00:33:29.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>Cool Ship.

00:33:29.652 --> 00:33:30.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, yeah.

00:33:30.712 --> 00:33:36.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>So you're pulling color from the grape skins during that period of time.

00:33:37.032 --> 00:33:38.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>And you're also pulling tannins.

00:33:39.552 --> 00:33:46.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>So tannins are sort of that character that can be considered astringent, at least in beer.

00:33:47.552 --> 00:33:51.792

<Patrick Chavanelle>In wine, you sort of want the presence of some tannins, depending on the style that you're looking to make.

00:33:52.332 --> 00:33:54.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>It helps with the mouthfeel and structure.

00:33:56.972 --> 00:34:07.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>The longer you allow beer, in this case, to stay on grapes, you'll stop extracting color within maybe five days, but you'll continue to extract tannins.

00:34:08.652 --> 00:34:15.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Historically, when we've tried to do wild beer aged on grapes, I think we treated it like we do any other fruit.

00:34:16.352 --> 00:34:18.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we give it two, three, four months.

00:34:19.692 --> 00:34:34.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>If we did that with grapes, which we've done before, and we've definitely dumped beer that we aged on fresh grapes, I don't know, it's hard to remember right now the exact reasons, because not all beers work out over there.

00:34:36.052 --> 00:34:41.072

<Patrick Chavanelle>But there's probably a good chance that we dumped it, because it was just so astringent and undrinkable.

00:34:42.692 --> 00:34:48.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>With this beer, took it off grapes after three, four weeks, because I was getting to that point where it was too much.

00:34:49.012 --> 00:34:55.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>So being able to utilize some of this knowledge from the wine side of things, and beer, I think is awesome.

00:34:56.672 --> 00:35:04.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I'm really looking forward to the more I learn in wine, the more there can be some crossing of worlds.

00:35:05.512 --> 00:35:07.552

<Patrick Chavanelle>So I guess that's where I was going with that point.

00:35:07.992 --> 00:35:08.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>Sorry about that.

00:35:08.852 --> 00:35:09.852

<Liz Wilson>No, it was amazing.

00:35:09.952 --> 00:35:15.292

<Liz Wilson>I feel like, speaking of grapes, did we just blow past them because we're like, grapes?

00:35:15.592 --> 00:35:18.872

<Liz Wilson>Or are we going to build up to grapes?

00:35:19.212 --> 00:35:21.212

<Liz Wilson>I mean, Maine is not a grape mecca.

00:35:21.612 --> 00:35:22.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Not a grape mecca.

00:35:25.452 --> 00:35:28.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's a great question and a question that I've asked.

00:35:29.372 --> 00:35:38.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>It all depends on whether that's something that folks would want, people that are coming to our tasting room.

00:35:38.212 --> 00:35:47.212

<Patrick Chavanelle>If they're requesting some kind of actual wine, grape wine, then I think it's something definitely worth exploring.

00:35:47.232 --> 00:35:48.812

<Patrick Chavanelle>But to your point, you're right.

00:35:49.512 --> 00:35:51.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>There are people that are growing grapes in Maine.

00:35:51.372 --> 00:35:53.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>A lot of them are growing them because they're making wine with them.

00:35:55.512 --> 00:36:02.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>There aren't a ton of people that are growing grapes just to grow them because that's crazy, because you need to make money.

00:36:05.332 --> 00:36:05.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yes.

00:36:05.832 --> 00:36:10.432

<Patrick Chavanelle>However, we did find a few last year that are doing just that.

00:36:10.972 --> 00:36:21.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>Either they're like winery and planning, and they're growing grapes right now, and they just have no home forum, which was a few cases of some folks I talked to.

00:36:21.052 --> 00:36:29.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>Or there's this one place that just they grow grapes, and they provide it to folks in the state or beyond that are interested in them.

00:36:30.512 --> 00:36:45.792

<Patrick Chavanelle>But that said, if we really did want to offer a wine, which I would be so excited to make, I think it would be wise of us to look a little more broadly.

00:36:46.652 --> 00:36:50.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's nothing wrong with other fruits in New England and New England states.

00:36:52.232 --> 00:36:53.872

<Liz Wilson>I mean, not too far away from us.

00:36:53.892 --> 00:36:54.512

<Liz Wilson>There's a lot of...

00:36:54.532 --> 00:36:56.472

<Liz Wilson>I mean, Long Island's not that far.

00:36:56.492 --> 00:36:57.412

<Liz Wilson>New York's not that far.

00:36:57.452 --> 00:36:58.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, exactly.

00:36:58.552 --> 00:36:59.552

<Liz Wilson>Long Island is New York.

00:36:59.572 --> 00:37:00.192

<Liz Wilson>I do know that.

00:37:01.612 --> 00:37:03.072

<Brett Willis>Different regions of New York.

00:37:03.092 --> 00:37:03.552

<Liz Wilson>Different New York.

00:37:03.592 --> 00:37:05.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>I mean, there are folks growing grapes in Vermont too.

00:37:06.032 --> 00:37:10.112

<Liz Wilson>Yeah, they've got some interesting hybrid things happening there.

00:37:10.532 --> 00:37:15.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think that's, for me personally, that's what I get most excited about.

00:37:16.672 --> 00:37:38.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>Taking a grape that's already a known thing, that would be cool to do, but taking this hybridized grape that no one really knows about and sort of making our own wine based on how we want that to express itself, that's what I'm excited about doing potentially.

00:37:39.012 --> 00:38:10.652

<Brett Willis>Yeah, and I think in there, there's something really cool too about offering new experiences, I feel like that's foundational, it literally is foundational to who we are as a brewery, and if we can continue that into these different realms that excite us, I'm just thinking of having, if you came to the Tasting Room and you didn't know what you were going to get, but you had the trust that it's going to be cool and good, both of these, I before this year was not necessarily a blueberry wine fan, and I definitely was not a honey berry wine slash cider hybrid fan, but now I am, and it's really cool to see it.

00:38:10.752 --> 00:38:21.392

<Brett Willis>So I think the more that we can establish that trust, you might not know what this is, but you're going to taste it and you're going to be like, whoa, that is so nice and balanced and nuanced.

00:38:21.412 --> 00:38:23.672

<Brett Willis>And I think that's kind of what we're delivering right now.

00:38:23.692 --> 00:38:24.392

<Brett Willis>So kudos.

00:38:24.432 --> 00:38:24.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>Good job.

00:38:25.392 --> 00:38:25.832

<Brett Willis>It's cool.

00:38:26.292 --> 00:38:26.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>It is cool.

00:38:26.932 --> 00:38:27.692

<Brett Willis>What's this last one?

00:38:28.092 --> 00:38:33.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, this last one, I knew we were talking about wine, but because of the similarities.

00:38:34.812 --> 00:38:43.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>This last year, we leading up to Harvest, or actually this was from two years ago, we did a number of trials with cider.

00:38:44.572 --> 00:38:48.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>And this was my, this was the one.

00:38:49.272 --> 00:38:50.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>You don't have to like it.

00:38:50.492 --> 00:38:51.892

<Patrick Chavanelle>No, this is totally fine.

00:38:52.892 --> 00:38:54.112

<Brett Willis>Would I have had this before?

00:38:54.132 --> 00:38:55.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yes, it's been on twice.

00:38:55.992 --> 00:38:57.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>Once fresh, once aged.

00:38:57.512 --> 00:38:58.232

<Brett Willis>That's funny.

00:38:59.152 --> 00:39:14.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>This was the first time in making something that wasn't beer, that once it was fermented, and this is a blend of two different ciders, once I tasted it, I was like, I didn't, this might sound weird.

00:39:14.892 --> 00:39:18.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>I felt like I didn't need like validation that it was good.

00:39:18.212 --> 00:39:20.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>Like I was like, this is good.

00:39:20.272 --> 00:39:22.172

<Patrick Chavanelle>I knew that this was good.

00:39:22.792 --> 00:39:25.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it just made me feel really good.

00:39:25.552 --> 00:39:28.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>And like, oh, I think I know what I'm doing here.

00:39:29.312 --> 00:39:34.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>So this is a blend of, again, two different ciders that were fermented separately.

00:39:34.732 --> 00:39:41.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>One was made with this apple called Northern Spy, and the other was made with this apple called Gold Rush.

00:39:41.712 --> 00:39:44.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>So the Northern Spy finished on the little sweeter side.

00:39:44.692 --> 00:39:46.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>Gold Rush was very acid forward.

00:39:47.412 --> 00:39:50.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>And this is basically a 50-50 blend of the two.

00:39:50.052 --> 00:39:52.812

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's what's called like a semi-dry cider.

00:39:52.832 --> 00:39:59.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's not like the cider that we have pouring in the tasting room, where it's fermented to completion, totally dry, no more sugars.

00:39:59.552 --> 00:40:03.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's some residual sugar there, but it's just enough to sort of balance that acidity.

00:40:04.892 --> 00:40:07.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it's probably the best thing so far.

00:40:07.992 --> 00:40:11.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>Maybe this Honey Berry wine beats it in a little bit.

00:40:11.552 --> 00:40:15.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>But from a cider side of things, I think it's the best cider I've ever made.

00:40:15.892 --> 00:40:18.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I'm really excited about it.

00:40:18.052 --> 00:40:26.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I'm excited to be able to offer sort of one-offs like this, which we have in our winery fermenting right now.

00:40:26.772 --> 00:40:33.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>We have a lot of either single orchard ciders, so a bunch of different apples from a particular orchard.

00:40:33.792 --> 00:40:37.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>We have a few single varietal ciders.

00:40:38.192 --> 00:40:41.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's one from one of my favorite apples called Chisel Jersey.

00:40:42.032 --> 00:40:43.152

<Brett Willis>Chisel Jersey?

00:40:45.472 --> 00:40:48.112

<Liz Wilson>That should just be like, what is this the name of?

00:40:48.172 --> 00:40:51.612

<Brett Willis>I believe weed was legal in the state where that was come up with.

00:40:51.772 --> 00:40:54.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>I was trying to, then I had to like put a name on the barrel head of all these.

00:40:54.892 --> 00:40:55.912

<Patrick Chavanelle>I was like, I don't know what to do.

00:40:55.932 --> 00:40:57.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was like Jersey Jersey.

00:40:57.712 --> 00:40:58.612

<Patrick Chavanelle>Bruce Springsteen.

00:40:58.632 --> 00:41:02.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>So I put Bruce on the barrel head for that one.

00:41:02.632 --> 00:41:03.652

<Brett Willis>That's amazing.

00:41:04.312 --> 00:41:06.812

<Patrick Chavanelle>And so we have a bunch of others over there.

00:41:06.832 --> 00:41:25.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I think we'll get to a point at some point this year where, you know, we'll either have our Dry Cider on, the Allagash Cider, as folks know it, or it'll be like one of these one-offs where it's something like unique and interesting and maybe something like this 50-50 blend.

00:41:25.632 --> 00:41:33.232

<Brett Willis>The reason I asked if I've had it before was because I think compared to, or maybe after having these other ones, it did taste like something I never had.

00:41:33.252 --> 00:41:34.232

<Brett Willis>And I agree.

00:41:34.272 --> 00:41:35.652

<Brett Willis>It is super duper good.

00:41:35.812 --> 00:41:40.012

<Brett Willis>It's like just, yeah, it's definitely not like any other cider I've ever had.

00:41:40.352 --> 00:41:41.092

<Brett Willis>Really tasty.

00:41:42.472 --> 00:41:42.812

<Brett Willis>Cool.

00:41:42.812 --> 00:41:44.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>So yeah, that's why I brought it.

00:41:44.812 --> 00:41:45.152

<Brett Willis>Nice.

00:41:45.272 --> 00:41:47.912

<Patrick Chavanelle>I hope it wasn't like just showing off.

00:41:51.632 --> 00:41:53.612

<Brett Willis>You guys ever had cider before?

00:41:53.612 --> 00:41:53.952

<Brett Willis>No?

00:41:54.352 --> 00:41:54.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:41:54.952 --> 00:41:56.432

<Brett Willis>No, this is awesome.

00:41:56.792 --> 00:42:00.772

<Brett Willis>I did have one more question, and it is kind of to the side.

00:42:01.192 --> 00:42:16.312

<Brett Willis>And it doesn't, I don't want to require a ton of explanation from you, but I just wanted to get into it because it's just like, I feel like it is a perfect example of the type of innovation that's going on in our like 100 space, like this sort of wild space, and it's Seller's No.

00:42:16.332 --> 00:42:17.712

<Brett Willis>10, that beer.

00:42:18.192 --> 00:42:21.972

<Brett Willis>The description of this beer, this has nothing to do with wines, this has nothing to do with cider.

00:42:21.992 --> 00:42:27.752

<Brett Willis>I just was looking at this, oh no, I guess it is kind of there, but like this is the most complicated beer I've ever seen in my life.

00:42:27.972 --> 00:42:30.492

<Patrick Chavanelle>I don't think it's the most complicated one we've done.

00:42:31.092 --> 00:42:35.152

<Patrick Chavanelle>I mean, number eight, before I talk about number ten, if I can talk about number eight real quick.

00:42:35.172 --> 00:42:47.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>Number eight, we took barrels of this beer that we called Churchill, which was basically our triple with some bacteria that we pitched, bacteria is called minions, lacto-pedio.

00:42:48.092 --> 00:42:56.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was in these, used wine barrels, then we transferred that beer into fresh bourbon barrels, and then we transferred that beer onto cherries.

00:42:57.992 --> 00:43:02.512

<Patrick Chavanelle>And I guess maybe, as I say that out loud, that wasn't overly complicated, but there's a lot of steps.

00:43:03.112 --> 00:43:10.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>And the way you have to talk about these beers, you have to describe it in a couple of words to describe all that is challenging.

00:43:11.692 --> 00:43:16.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>So for the one that you're referencing, I forgot where we landed in terms of the actual name.

00:43:16.972 --> 00:43:18.372

<Brett Willis>It's just number 10.

00:43:18.872 --> 00:43:20.472

<Brett Willis>This is the description you gave.

00:43:20.592 --> 00:43:23.752

<Brett Willis>Oh yeah, literally what we called it.

00:43:23.772 --> 00:43:27.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, I think we're calling it blended saison.

00:43:27.932 --> 00:43:30.092

<Brett Willis>Blend of wild ales, aged.

00:43:30.712 --> 00:43:33.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>With honey, aged in something, something.

00:43:33.152 --> 00:43:34.332

<Brett Willis>Amphora, yeah.

00:43:34.532 --> 00:43:50.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we had done some R&D trials in the small scale of taking Cool Ship and adding honey to it to see if you could really get the character of the honey once the honey was fermented.

00:43:50.812 --> 00:43:53.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>The two that we did were just so good.

00:43:54.012 --> 00:43:57.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>One in particular used wild blueberry honey.

00:43:59.032 --> 00:44:01.892

<Patrick Chavanelle>You could get these blueberry notes.

00:44:02.192 --> 00:44:03.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was crazy.

00:44:04.292 --> 00:44:07.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>And honestly, you can go down this whole honey world if you want to.

00:44:08.172 --> 00:44:13.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's so many different kinds.

00:44:13.592 --> 00:44:17.572

<Patrick Chavanelle>There's a nonprofit called the National Honey Board where every year...

00:44:17.592 --> 00:44:18.752

<Brett Willis>Are you a member of the board?

00:44:18.772 --> 00:44:24.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>Not a member, no, but I took their annual brewers, retreat course or whatever you want to call it.

00:44:25.592 --> 00:44:33.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>And they teach you about how honey is made, but more importantly, these distinct differences from varietal to varietal.

00:44:34.212 --> 00:44:35.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>And there's this one...

00:44:35.312 --> 00:44:37.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, meadow foam.

00:44:37.732 --> 00:44:40.372

<Patrick Chavanelle>Meadow foam honey is out in the Pacific Northwest.

00:44:41.092 --> 00:44:43.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>The honey, I assume, is from that.

00:44:44.452 --> 00:44:47.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>Or bees that are around meadow foam flowers?

00:44:48.572 --> 00:44:49.252

<Brett Willis>Yeah, sure.

00:44:49.492 --> 00:44:50.792

<Liz Wilson>I don't know, but I assume so.

00:44:50.812 --> 00:44:51.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>I just made that up, maybe.

00:44:52.012 --> 00:44:55.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>But the honey is crazy.

00:44:55.172 --> 00:44:57.652

<Patrick Chavanelle>It smells like toasted marshmallows.

00:44:58.432 --> 00:45:00.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>Like straight up toasted marshmallows.

00:45:00.292 --> 00:45:01.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>And it's unbelievable.

00:45:01.992 --> 00:45:02.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>I couldn't believe it.

00:45:03.352 --> 00:45:03.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's crazy.

00:45:04.052 --> 00:45:06.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>Anyways, so honey is very cool.

00:45:06.852 --> 00:45:09.092

<Patrick Chavanelle>That blueberry honey, you can actually smell...

00:45:09.672 --> 00:45:11.632

<Patrick Chavanelle>Maybe there's a little bias going into it.

00:45:12.472 --> 00:45:14.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>You smell blueberries and you smell them.

00:45:15.072 --> 00:45:19.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>But I swear, so we did that as an R&D trial, like a very small couple of gallons, put it on tap.

00:45:20.852 --> 00:45:23.572

<Patrick Chavanelle>We wanted to sort of recreate that for real beer.

00:45:24.552 --> 00:45:28.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>And the clay and four pots that we had were open.

00:45:29.892 --> 00:45:35.732

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we took some Cool Ship, we put it in those vessels, added some of that wild blueberry honey.

00:45:36.612 --> 00:45:40.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>We had done a different beer with a different honey as well.

00:45:40.832 --> 00:45:42.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>We did a Cool Ship beer using buckwheat.

00:45:44.632 --> 00:45:47.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>And we added buckwheat honey to those.

00:45:47.612 --> 00:45:48.752

<Patrick Chavanelle>We ended up dumping those.

00:45:49.952 --> 00:45:52.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>Unfortunately, not all beers work out over there.

00:45:52.872 --> 00:45:57.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>But for this one in particular, so Cool Ship with honey in those pots.

00:45:57.272 --> 00:46:04.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>Because I thought it was cool to sort of tie in the bold use of those pots.

00:46:04.432 --> 00:46:09.592

<Patrick Chavanelle>They used to have like fermenting mead, honey wine, if you want to call it that.

00:46:11.872 --> 00:46:17.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>So kind of like an ode to how those vessels used to be used with spontaneous beer and honey.

00:46:18.752 --> 00:46:25.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>Then we took that beer out of those vessels, and it was a little too tart.

00:46:25.412 --> 00:46:29.672

<Patrick Chavanelle>So we blended in this other beer that we made.

00:46:29.912 --> 00:46:31.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was some snow report.

00:46:31.732 --> 00:46:32.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:46:32.812 --> 00:46:36.772

<Patrick Chavanelle>But that we added some bacteria to.

00:46:36.792 --> 00:46:40.852

<Patrick Chavanelle>So snow report is honey saison, which is what we called it.

00:46:41.392 --> 00:46:44.712

<Patrick Chavanelle>The honey that we used in that beer is wildflower honey.

00:46:45.312 --> 00:46:46.692

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's this blend.

00:46:46.712 --> 00:46:48.792

<Patrick Chavanelle>It was about 25% snow report.

00:46:49.092 --> 00:46:52.872

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's cool ship beer, snow report, each with two different types of honey.

00:46:53.292 --> 00:46:58.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>Then we're taking that blend and we'll be conditioning it with a third type of honey.

00:46:58.552 --> 00:47:04.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>And that third type of honey came from Maine.

00:47:04.632 --> 00:47:05.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's nothing specific.

00:47:06.492 --> 00:47:10.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>Actually, it was our old, I forgot what her role was here.

00:47:10.432 --> 00:47:11.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>She worked in finance.

00:47:11.492 --> 00:47:13.252

<Patrick Chavanelle>Erin, she's a master beekeeper.

00:47:13.272 --> 00:47:14.252

<Brett Willis>She kept bees for us.

00:47:14.472 --> 00:47:15.312

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:47:15.512 --> 00:47:20.412

<Patrick Chavanelle>She used to tend to the Allagash hive, which she's going to be bringing back since the warehouse moved.

00:47:20.472 --> 00:47:23.172

<Patrick Chavanelle>She just needs to spot out a new location.

00:47:23.752 --> 00:47:26.952

<Patrick Chavanelle>I think it's that same hive, but she had just moved it to her home.

00:47:27.112 --> 00:47:27.832

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:47:27.852 --> 00:47:29.912

<Patrick Chavanelle>So it's honey from that hive.

00:47:31.692 --> 00:47:47.172

<Patrick Chavanelle>And we've never conditioned, so by condition, I mean like you're adding sugar, or in this case, honey, to beer, and then you're putting it in bottles, and then that sugar will be consumed in the bottle and then carbonated naturally.

00:47:47.192 --> 00:47:48.132

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:47:48.152 --> 00:47:52.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>We've never used anything other than just sugar for that sort of thing.

00:47:52.752 --> 00:48:08.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>So by using honey, you're going to get, well, fingers crossed, this honey character that in a normal fermentation, you're sort of driving that off because when you ferment anything, you have to off gas it.

00:48:08.312 --> 00:48:08.892

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:48:08.912 --> 00:48:14.192

<Patrick Chavanelle>And there are certain volatiles, like pleasant aromas that you sort of lose.

00:48:14.212 --> 00:48:17.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>If you could smell it when it's fermenting, those are gone.

00:48:17.072 --> 00:48:20.332

<Patrick Chavanelle>Those are no longer in the thing that's fermenting.

00:48:22.232 --> 00:48:28.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>So by adding it and then packaging it, we can't lose those honey aromas.

00:48:28.252 --> 00:48:30.012

<Patrick Chavanelle>Those are going to stay in the beer.

00:48:30.572 --> 00:48:33.032

<Patrick Chavanelle>So yeah, totally not complicated at all.

00:48:33.232 --> 00:48:33.612

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:48:33.792 --> 00:48:38.352

<Patrick Chavanelle>Three different kinds of honey, two different kinds of beer, one spontaneous, one's not.

00:48:38.352 --> 00:48:38.892

<Brett Willis>How many vessels?

00:48:38.912 --> 00:48:39.972

<Patrick Chavanelle>And an amphora vessel.

00:48:41.272 --> 00:48:47.812

<Liz Wilson>If you're still with us, to reiterate, your head may be falling off, Patrick is beaming.

00:48:49.432 --> 00:48:52.132

<Liz Wilson>There is coming out in our cellars.

00:48:52.392 --> 00:48:53.772

<Liz Wilson>So that's all you need to know.

00:48:53.792 --> 00:48:54.132

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:48:54.152 --> 00:49:05.332

<Brett Willis>And I think like, I guess the thing I was getting at with that question was kind of like understanding that it's like part science and that you know what you're going to get, part happenstance in that like, oh, this vessel's free.

00:49:05.352 --> 00:49:06.232

<Brett Willis>Wouldn't that be cool?

00:49:06.312 --> 00:49:12.932

<Brett Willis>And part like, like juking and jiving with what you're getting because you're getting something and you're saying, OK, cool.

00:49:12.952 --> 00:49:15.552

<Brett Willis>Well, I guess let's add this because wouldn't that be really cool?

00:49:15.572 --> 00:49:26.312

<Brett Willis>And so it's like, it's just a cool amalgamation of multiple processes that ends up with like a really tasty beer that's super hard to explain, but is like, just drink it, just try it.

00:49:26.432 --> 00:49:27.172

<Brett Willis>It's going to be awesome.

00:49:27.192 --> 00:49:28.272

<Patrick Chavanelle>And we could never make it again.

00:49:30.272 --> 00:49:30.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>So get it?

00:49:30.952 --> 00:49:32.012

<Brett Willis>Well, it's here.

00:49:32.032 --> 00:49:39.772

<Liz Wilson>I think the best way, I guess, there's a few ways to experience all the things that we've been talking about today.

00:49:42.012 --> 00:49:48.192

<Liz Wilson>The wine and cider are available in our tasting room on an ongoing basis.

00:49:48.212 --> 00:49:53.892

<Liz Wilson>So just pop by our tasting room and we'll have presumably both of these.

00:49:54.392 --> 00:50:07.472

<Patrick Chavanelle>The plan is to always have a cider on and to always have a wine, whether it's blueberry wine or the volume that we produce of this other wine is low.

00:50:09.032 --> 00:50:15.532

<Patrick Chavanelle>However, we're doing three times the amount right now, which should be ready in a few months' time.

00:50:15.552 --> 00:50:23.572

<Patrick Chavanelle>So fingers crossed that eventually at some point, maybe this summer, that will be an option for the tasting room.

00:50:23.592 --> 00:50:25.132

<Brett Willis>A lot of people come to the tasting room in summer.

00:50:25.812 --> 00:50:36.252

<Liz Wilson>And then I would say the cellars is our tour and our tasting experience here at the brewery.

00:50:36.532 --> 00:50:45.112

<Liz Wilson>And Patrick referenced our winery, which is folded into the wild barrel room.

00:50:45.152 --> 00:50:49.012

<Liz Wilson>So you can come visit us in the cellars.

00:50:49.712 --> 00:50:50.752

<Liz Wilson>Am I correct in saying that?

00:50:51.172 --> 00:50:52.492

<Liz Wilson>Okay, great.

00:50:53.992 --> 00:50:58.332

<Liz Wilson>I think it's a small but mighty little winery right now.

00:50:59.412 --> 00:50:59.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>It's pretty full.

00:51:00.392 --> 00:51:00.672

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:51:00.992 --> 00:51:02.392

<Patrick Chavanelle>So yeah, come check it out.

00:51:02.392 --> 00:51:03.032

<Brett Willis>It's awesome.

00:51:03.052 --> 00:51:04.232

<Patrick Chavanelle>Come see Bruce the Barrel.

00:51:07.632 --> 00:51:10.192

<Brett Willis>Well, Patrick, thank you as always.

00:51:10.272 --> 00:51:10.992

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah, for sure.

00:51:11.012 --> 00:51:11.452

<Brett Willis>For the time.

00:51:11.472 --> 00:51:13.012

<Brett Willis>This is, I mean, awesome.

00:51:13.052 --> 00:51:25.732

<Brett Willis>This is like, yeah, it's so cool to just hear about everything and just kind of like, you know, I feel like I always absorb a little bit of your enthusiasm after these, and I'm just walking around like, yeah, yeah, making stuff.

00:51:25.752 --> 00:51:30.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>I appreciate the opportunity to talk about things like this because I, you know, I love it.

00:51:31.132 --> 00:51:31.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:51:32.212 --> 00:51:39.452

<Patrick Chavanelle>So anytime someone wants to listen to me talk about any of these things, I was like, yes, yes, yes, I'll do it for sure.

00:51:39.552 --> 00:51:40.292

<Patrick Chavanelle>I'm happy to.

00:51:40.712 --> 00:51:41.112

<Patrick Chavanelle>Well, good.

00:51:41.132 --> 00:51:42.392

<Brett Willis>Well, we would definitely go in the future.

00:51:42.852 --> 00:51:44.012

<Liz Wilson>And thanks for bringing samples.

00:51:44.332 --> 00:51:45.412

<Liz Wilson>It's even more exciting.

00:51:45.532 --> 00:51:45.932

<Patrick Chavanelle>Yeah.

00:51:46.532 --> 00:51:47.052

<Patrick Chavanelle>Awesome.

00:51:47.692 --> 00:51:49.432

<Brett Willis>Well, cheers.

00:51:50.152 --> 00:51:50.852

<Brett Willis>Hope to see you soon.

00:51:51.732 --> 00:51:53.472

<Brett Willis>This has been an Allagash Brewing production.

00:51:53.552 --> 00:51:58.352

<Brett Willis>If you have something you'd like us to talk about or a question for our team, just send us an email at podcast at

00:51:58.612 --> 00:52:00.712

<Brett Willis>And as always, thanks for listening.