From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast

S1 Episode 14: Hop Reach - Branding our Ideal IPA

• Allagash Brewing Company • Season 1 • Episode 14

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So we knew we wanted to brew a delicious IPA, but what to call it? And, for that matter, what should the packaging look like? And then what should we sell it in: bottles or cans? In this episode, we’re joined by Naomi Neville, our Sales Director, and Jeff Pillet-Shore, our Marketing Director, to talk through the thought process, absolutely humongous number of options, and crucial decisions that led us to the name, and brand, of Hop Reach.

Brett Willis:

This is From Maine, With Love, an Allagash Brewing podcast where we talk all about beer, our community here in Maine, and things that generally make us happy. And what is making me personally happy right now is thinking about Hop Reach IPA uh, the topic of this conversation.

Liz Wilson:

Today we talked with Jeff and Naomi about our, uh, upcoming release Hop Reach. I felt like they, you know, a great conversation. I feel like they have so many insights when it comes to what we're hoping, um, the end result will be. So we, we heard a lot about the branding and why we're making an ipa. Um, it was a fun conversation.

Brett Willis:

Uh, it was super fun. We go through how we went from, you know, Hey, we're going to brew an ipa, toda. We have a beer called Hop Reach IPA. And this is what the branding looks like, and this is how we're going to sell it. So it was really fun to relive this process. Uh, Liz and I both worked on, uh, Hop Reach as a beer from the marketing side, and then, you know, with Jeff and with Naomi and with her entire team. And so I think it was inspiring for me how collaborative and inclusive the process was. Uh, you know, both between marketing and sales, but also, you know, folks from across the company.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. If that sounds, uh, interesting to you, give this episode a listen.

Brett Willis:

So joining me, uh, today, Liz Wilson. Hello. Hi, Liz. Hey, uh, Naomi Neville, our sales director. Hi, Naomi. Hello. Uh, and Jeff Pillet-Shore, marketing director here at Allagash. Hello. Good to have everyone here. Now, I, I think, uh, my guess is that, uh, the both of you got wind of my secret questions, so I change them. So you can't predict what we're gonna ask. So we're gonna start with Naomi.

Naomi Neville:

Uh oh.

Brett Willis:

Oh. You can't, you can't predict this stuff. Uh, so Naomi, I hear you're a fan of travel, and so the first question's a quick one, aisle seat or window?

Naomi Neville:

Oh, always aisle. And it's gotta be, Yeah, absolutely. And you gotta be on like the left hand side so you can put your right leg into the aisle. Yeah. Very specific about where I get my seats.

Brett Willis:

What about the drink cart? Aren't you getting bumped?

Naomi Neville:

Yeah, but it's worth it. It really is.<laugh>, I get to stretch<laugh>. One my legs out. It it, it's worth it.

Brett Willis:

Okay, that's good.

Naomi Neville:

And it's closer to the drink cart too, so there's that benefit, Right?

Brett Willis:

Of course. True. Of course. That's fair.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

I will, If I, as someone who firmly agrees with Naomi on this, you should seek a life partner who feels differently.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm a window seat person. Can't stand the aisle.

Liz Wilson:

I'm a hundred percent too. Ooh, what does that that say about us? I don't know.

Brett Willis:

I, you know what it says, everything<laugh>.

Naomi Neville:

It should be, it should be a first date question for sure. It is. Aisle A window. It's like cats dogs.

Brett Willis:

That's true. That's important. So this is this slight follow up, but, uh, what's, what's the most relaxing destination you've ever been to? And it could just be maybe the trip itself was relaxing or whatever, but I'm just, I'm interested.

Naomi Neville:

Mm. That is a really great question. I think Costa Rica, that was, it hadn't been on a trip in over a long time, and it was just so relaxing. Everyone was so friendly. The weather was great. Um, did like an Airbnb so we could cook, and it was just really, really amazing.

Brett Willis:

That's awesome, man. You, you nailed it. All right, Jeff, question for you, uh, what's the podcast budget for 2023?<laugh>? No, that's

Liz Wilson:

A joke.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Depends on how today goes, Brett.

Brett Willis:

That's so true. Well, yeah. All right. No, I, The pressure's on, uh, no, the real question. Um, so you can only pick a single sweet to enjoy for the next year. Uh, what is that sweet?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Uh, you know, that actually was not a hard question for me. Um, my wife's, uh, almond chocolate chip cookies just, you know, you gotta, you gotta go with what pops into your head first.

Liz Wilson:

Lot of different sweets out there, but don't seem to make it to the office too.<laugh>

Jeff Piller-Shore:

<laugh>. Good point. Good point. It's, it's actually interesting. We don't bake it as much as you might think, but I feel like under that, like, what is that sort of all purpose? Uh, sweet question. It's, it's just gotta be chocolate chip cookies.

Brett Willis:

I can see that. That's good.

Liz Wilson:

This podcast always ends up at cookies, so I'm happy.

Brett Willis:

Hundred percent

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Fair. That's fair. Yeah. And I feel called out. I feel, I feel like I need to, I need to raise my game and get those cookies in here, so I'll see what we can do.

Brett Willis:

I was gonna say about Susie's cookies. We enjoyed them during this shoot for the Hop Reach, uh, commercial we just shot. Amazing.

Liz Wilson:

It all comes full circle

Naomi Neville:

For mm-hmm.<affirmative>.

Brett Willis:

Liz, do you, uh, do you want to take that first question

Liz Wilson:

To kick us off here? Yeah. So, uh,<laugh>, Yeah. We, we finally decided that we'd be brewing a year-round ipa. Um, you know, when you heard this, what did you think?

Naomi Neville:

Uh, I was excited. This is something that I've wanted to do for a very long time. I think a lot of us here like to drink hoppy beers. We certainly drink other people's hoppy beers. There was a gap in our portfolio that I felt like we could use a hoppy beer, really round it out nicely. Um, so yeah, it didn't take me long to get on board with this idea. Very excited.

Brett Willis:

Nice.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. What about you, Jeff?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Yeah, I think we all sort of came to the same conclusion almost independently. And, and I think we sort of shared with each other this idea that, hey, maybe now is the right time to do this. There was a sort of almost magical connection of realizing that we could do this, it could be delicious, we could have a blast doing it. We could be proud of it. It could really be an essentially Allagash take on an ipa. And I think it, it, it became very exciting and inspirational very, very quickly. It was, it was, it was fun.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. I think I remember when I heard it, I was just kind of like, I got super excited because I just know with our brewers and like the brewing talent we have here, that it was just like, Oh, I cannot wait to see what they, you know, unleash them on this, like, entire category of beer, of like, brew exactly what you want to drink. I was just like, Oh, this is gonna be really good. And spoiler alert. It is really good

Liz Wilson:

<laugh>.

Brett Willis:

Um, but yeah, I guess, you know, the, the kind of natural follow up question is like, okay, so, so we made the decision why, you know, why we brew in an ipa?

Naomi Neville:

Cuz we really wanted to brew an ipa.

Brett Willis:

So that's it!

Naomi Neville:

Uh, wholesalers have been asking us for one for years. Uh, it's probably the most asked-about beer when people come into our tasting room. I think our tasting room team is pretty tired of having the answer with not quite, But we do have this beer that's kind of hoppy, so like everybody coming through wants to know what we have for an ipa. Um, and we really enjoy them, like I mentioned earlier, and it's just such a massive part of the craft beer market. It's like almost 50% if you can believe that. I think it's like 45% of craft beer is in that sort of overarching IPA category. So it's this big piece of the craft beer business. So we really weren't playing in. Um, so it's pretty exciting all around for us.

Brett Willis:

That's cool.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah, I feel like we see it every once in a while in reviews. It's like, we had a great time, but they don't have any IPAs and we're like, Ah, shooters. So I think we<laugh> I think we all were pretty excited when we decided we're gonna do it. Yeah.

Naomi Neville:

Yeah. We're in a IPA territory. We know IPA right now. You know, people come to Maine, come to New England, they expect you to have an ipa. Um, so soon we'll have, you know, our version of an ipa.

Brett Willis:

Totally. And even when we did put an IPA on tap, we had, uh, From Maine with Love number 19, Uh, can we say the spoiler of that beer? Can we, can we, can we kind of do the little insight? So yeah. So behind the curtain From Maine, With Love 19 was actually a test batch of Hop Reach to see how we, how uh, the sort of recipe that we created on a smaller system would work when brewed on a larger system. So our way of kind of trying that out and seeing how tasting also enjoying it ourselves was, uh, to put it out as a From Maine, With Love Beer. So if you had From Maine, With Love 19, you have had very nearly what Hop Reach IPA will be tasting like. Um, and anyway, so when we put op, we put, uh, From Maine, With Love 19 on, uh, tap at the Brewery. Only I saw a, uh, person say they need more IPAs,<laugh>. This is like, we put one on, we should have put more on. So hey.

Naomi Neville:

Right.

Brett Willis:

Proof of concept.

Naomi Neville:

Yeah. And it's selling really well. A lot of good feedback on the From Maine, With Love 19.

Brett Willis:

That's awesome.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

I, I think also there, there might have been a time when, uh, we felt that we needed to not have an ipa, that we needed to show that we were, um, coming from a different place. We needed to reflect our values as a, as a brewery through showing a very different beer list. And we've reached a time where I think we really feel comfortable with the idea that we can be allagash, we can be what we stand for, we can be what we need to be for the community and our employees. And we can also, uh, brew a, a pretty darn delicious IPA at the same time.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah, I think that's a good call. Jeff and I, you know, we've said it a few times, but I think it's worth mentioning again, not our first ipa, correct?

Brett Willis:

Mm-hmm.<affirmative>

Naomi Neville:

Correct. Very far from it. Actually, I think before I even joined Allagash, which is, uh, over 13 years now, Hugh Malone was out in the market. I can remember in my previous, um, career, someone bringing in a bottle of Hugh Malone and we all shared it. And that was definitely before I worked here. So I gotta think that was, you know, that's quite a while ago now. We've done other IPA iterations over the years. Um, few of our From Maine, With Loves. Um, we do some hot pilot beers in the tasting room, Um, that's sort of tasting room only. So definitely not our first foray, um, into this kind of category.

Brett Willis:

Let us step all the way back, uh, from, from talking about Hop Reach, but do Allagash fans, the people who enjoy our beer currently, do they want an ipa? Is this something for them?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

I'm glad you asked that. Brett.

Brett Willis:

<laugh> You're welcome, Jeff

Jeff Piller-Shore:

We were, we've talked a lot about this, uh, as, as the release was coming up. And I think there's a story that Zach, our quality manager, was told a bunch of times, which is when he's going out, um, with his family or his own, uh, he's gonna get two beers and the first beer is gonna be an Allagash White and the second beer is gonna be an ipa. And there's so many folks internally at the brewery for whom that resonates, that they absolutely love Allagash White and they also love IPAs. And so to a certain extent, that's great, that's us. But can we trust ourselves? Are we really the entirety of the beer drinking population? Obviously not. But what we've been able to confirm is that the Allagash Drinker drinks IPAs, they are an IPA drinker, and there are certainly many, many people who love Allagash White and they love Belgian style wheat beers, and they love our beer, and that is the beer that they enjoy. And they don't really have a lot of interest in exploring IPAs. That's awesome. And there's a lot of folks who are like that, but there are, as many, if not more folks who drink IPAs and they drink a lot of IPAs. They actually, over half of our drinkers drink an IPA every week. And overall Allagash drinkers drink as much IPA as they do Allagash White. So, um, we're a big part of what they enjoy, but there's so many other things that people are enjoying as well. So, um, we are excited by getting to have an IPA that we think reflects a lot of the things that they enjoy about Alga White in the sense that it's, it's balanced, that it's approachable, that it's inclusive, that it really is a beer that's there for them day in, day out. And now obviously it's a very different beer. It's extremely hoppy, it's a, it's a straight up ipa, uh, but it also reflects the other things that they're already enjoying about Allagash White. So it's, it's fun getting to be able to play in that space and offer something to that drinker because it means that we get to be who we are. We don't have to, you know, change, uh, change up our attire, so to speak. We get to be ourselves and show up for that drinker. And our hope is, is that they welcome us into that space.

Brett Willis:

So I guess let's jump to, to kind of the, so we heard we're gonna make an ipa then I guess for both of you, like Naomi and Jeff, like where, where did we start? You know, like you hear that and then where did we go from there? From a branding and sort of sales perspective?

Naomi Neville:

I think, I mean, it, it, I don't know if this sounds cheesy, but we started with the beer. I think, you know, you all are in the marketing team, but it's, you can't brand the beer without kind of knowing what the beer is gonna be, the taste profiles. You know, if you, you don't wanna brand it in an extreme way when it's gonna be very soft on the pallet and, you know, vice versa. You wanna like nail the feel of the beer. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, so we definitely started with the beer. We started with what we wanted to be drinking and what we thought other people would enjoy drinking and did it in a very Allagash sort of way.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Yeah. I think understanding what we wanted the drinker to take away from the beer, what we wanted them to feel and experience, um, you know, when, uh, and, and how we pictured them consuming it and enjoying it and drinking it. Um, all of that really served as, you know, the, the opening direction for all aspects of this beer, What it was gonna taste like, what it was gonna look like, uh, you know, what the entire experience would be for that drinker and that that person who chose this beer.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. And I guess what do, what do we mean by the Allagash way? Like what do, what are some of those things that make it allagash?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Yeah. I mean, I think when we started thinking about this beer, we in a lot of ways wanted to make The Allagash White of IPAs. Uh, and we meant that, you know, in some senses, in a very practical way, right? We wanted it to sit and we knew that it would sit on the shelf, you know, in your favorite store next to Allagash White. So it had to feel part of a whole, it had to feel part of that family. But on an even deeper, more fundamental level, we wanted an approachable inclusive beer that you would be proud to drink, whether you were new to IPAs or knew all there was to IPAs, something that would be as, you know, familiar to you on day one, as it would be to you on, you know, know year 10, uh, and that it would be something that you would enjoy coming back to time and time again and discover new flavors and new experiences all the time. It's a, it's a pretty high bar that we set for ourselves, but that idea of really just being inclusive and approachable and welcoming to people, something that you could drink, um, you know, uh, a couple times a week if you so chose. All of those things were qualities that we wanted, that we, we love about Allagash White and that we wanted, uh, our Allagash IPA to be able to have, um, from the beer inside to the, the branding on the outside.

Naomi Neville:

Yeah. That's what Rob says about Allagash White, Right? You guys been drinking it every day for over 25 years and he still finds new things to enjoy in it every time.

Brett Willis:

Totally.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. And I think, you know, that was, that's a hugely exciting task for our brewers. And you know, in some of the other, um, podcasts we'll do on this series, we'll get more into detail as to how we actually, uh, came up with the liquid that will be in this can. So, um, if you haven't heard those, be sure to tune in to the episodes with our brewers.

Brett Willis:

Yes, very, very cool, uh, on how that all worked. And I feel like there was kind of a, a similar iteration process that went with the brewing of the beer and also went with the branding of the beer. You know, like with how we work, it wasn't like came up with one idea and we're like, that's good. You know, like<laugh>, I think there were more ideas for this single beer than for any beer we've ever worked on. And so, yeah, I mean, like, you know, I think thinking of that branding and thinking, I guess for where we landed, uh, so, you know, prior to that, Naomi, like what, was there anything that you were hoping for in the brand of the beer? So we, so we knew where we were going with the, with the liquid itself, with the beer. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, we knew that the flavor profile was, uh, going to be somewhere in the realm of citrusy, tropical, and maybe a little bit of pine. That's what our brewers were shooting for. So once we kind of knew this, we knew the ABV of this, the shooting for 6.8% What then, I guess, Naomi, were you kind of hoping for when you thought of the end result of branded beer?

Naomi Neville:

So I think I was hoping for something that really resembled the beer and the can. So like you just said, it's citrusy, tropical, but also balanced. Um, just because this is a podcast and because you can't see what it looks like right now, it's a beautiful cream colored can. And there are hop bines like wrapping around it, and the buds on the hop bines are green and the, uh, leaves are like just different tropical colors, and it's just very balanced, sort of a light looking can, um, definitely not an extreme-looking can. So it really represents the beer in the can perfectly, honestly. It's welcoming, has an accessible look. Um, and because there are so many hops on the can, you really get the feeling that what is gonna be in there is gonna be hoppy, which is very much what I wanted to express with that. Um, and then just like, I think Jeff has said it before, but it's sort of like this classic timeless look that can sit next to Allagash White and won't age or get old quickly. Um,

Brett Willis:

Totally. Jeff, same question for you.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Oh my God. I mean, I think Naomi just nailed it. I mean, how awesome is that, that I get to listen to my counterpart in sales? Just describe the brand so beautifully. And I think that that is a reflection of what made this entire process so fun was how inclusive we were with each other. Um, but in terms of what the target was, absolutely. We, we wanted something that was classic timeless, and I think critically made it as easy as possible on the person picking this beer up off the shelf to know what they were gonna get. Um, you know, we know intuitively we know from experience, we know from listening to consumers that the act of shopping for a beer is oddly stressful. Um, you know, people worry about what it's gonna taste like, they worry whether or not it's gonna meet their expectations if they're gonna be stuck with it in their fridge if they don't like it, That's like a big deal for, for folks. And I think it's easy to forget that a little bit because we've worked inside the beer business, you know, all of us for at least a few years, if not a lot longer. But, you know, I think for so many folks that act of choosing a beer is, is a, opens a lot of questions. And so a lot of our goal in designing this beer is to just help relax people and help them understand that they're gonna get something that is what they expect and that they're gonna enjoy. And so all of the aspects that Naomi describes were intentionally and, and thoughtfully selected to be able to convey what the beer actually tastes like so the people would go into it with the best chance of, of knowing that they were picking a beer that they would enjoy.

Brett Willis:

Yeah, that the cream background too, I feel like is one of the biggest things that I think, uh, changed for me was we, we had, we had thought about it initially had a bunch of different options that had a cream background. We ended up kind of semi going with the background that was a little bit darker, really cool deep blue background, but then ultimately, like, kind of towards the very end of the process we were like, Let, let's switch it back. Let's switch that cream is so much more approachable. And when we made that mental shift at the end, I remember just being like internally very excited being like, Yes, this was the right, like, you know, as excited as I've ever been over a color change,<laugh>, it was, it was, uh, it was cool, uh, to, to make that mental shift. And I just feel like it makes the, the, the entire beer so much more approachable.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. I think back on some of the other, you know, we had many different options, uh, for where this brand could go. And when I think of being at shelf, like Jeff was mentioning and looking at, at a sea of beer, you know, I think we really got to a good place to quickly communicate to drinkers like, what the heck they're gonna have. And so I hope that we find that that's true. So, um, yeah. And I guess, you know, naming a beer is a, I don't even know how to describe. It's simple.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

It's the easiest thing

Liz Wilson:

We do. A special kind of, hell can I say that? I dunno. It's a, it's a challenge to name a beer. And I think, you know, that we debated a lot. Why, why don't we just call it Allagash ipa? Or do we give it a name? So I think Naomi or Jeff, do you wanna talk a little bit about the exploration, um, around the name of this beer?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Yeah, I can, I can start off. I think the, you know, the exploration of the name was also, uh, part of a whole in terms of the exploration of the creative identity of, of the beer as well. And, you know, we really went into it with that as an open question. We didn't rule that out. We were very curious about the idea that maybe Allagash IPA worked perfectly, right? It's the perfect counterpart to Allagash White, which is a style. There's tons of successful IPAs on the market that are just simply brand name ipa. So that could totally work. And so what we knew that we needed to do with the name and all of the creative identity was we needed to really open ourselves up. We, we know our brand, we know our consumer, we know our visuals, but we also were humble about the fact that the IPA segment is, um, potentially at least a different mindset from other beers. And we wanted to go in approaching that in a curious way. And so we allowed ourselves to explore the widest range of possible directions, both in terms of naming and in terms of visual identity. So things that were more experiential and moment based things that were purely stylistic, things that were not purely stylistic, but also more focused on giving you a sense as to what the beer itself actually was. And that allowed us a ton of creative freedom, you know, rather than it being a process that was sort of decided by debate or, uh, you know,<laugh> or you know, outlasting the other person. It, it really became, uh, a process of let's just get as many great ideas out there, follow them and see where they go. And then let's get the voice of the consumer in there, let's, you know, do some really thoughtful testing to see how these different ideas actually hold up in context. And then that is going to allow us to reflect on what we think is right for our brand. Just really allowed us to stay humble and stay curious. And out of that is what came, actually, no, the drinker didn't prefer this as Allagash ipa. And we thought, okay, that's really interesting. What resonated for them, however, was this direction that Naomi described, which is, don't tell me it's an ipa, show me it's an ipa. Uh, and we think it, it comes across really nicely through the hops, the use of the word hop, the color, et cetera. Everything that Naomi has already beautifully and better described than I can. It, it hopefully, it it does that work of showing itself as an IPA rather than just telling you loudly.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. And there's some other little, uh, touches in there. There's some leaves on there and the color that those leaves are kind of like a lighter blue and then orange. And I've always viewed that for me as like, that's kind of the tropical notes, you know, who wants to talk about the name?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

You know, actually I think we have an expert who can talk best about the name on the call. Um, Brett, would you like to tell us more about the origination of the name and where it came from and, and what, what inspired the team to come up with that name?

Brett Willis:

I would love to thank you. Um, so I was, I was a part of the team that came up with the branding for this beer and the name. I think, I honestly don't know where any of the names came from at this point. Like I know I can't pin anyone to anyone in particular. Yes, they came, they were gifts from the Muse. Uh, but the, uh, so with Hop Reach, the thing that we ended up coming to was just that like a hop reach is just kind of has an interesting sound. It, it rolls off the tongue. It's a really kind of just nice name to say. There's the actual, uh, sort of in the description of the beer, we thought about, you know, the hop bines reaching for the sun and they're going up and filling with citrusy and tropical flavor. And so there's that sort of evoking the flavor of the beer in there with the imagery that we, uh, kind talked about. There's also the, uh, fact that, you know, there's the alternative meaning of reach where we have brewers and we have people within the brewery who like to reach for IPAs. So that was a fun little play on the words and stuff. And it's something we figured out after the fact, uh, that I, I like, I like figured out right before we were gonna talk to the press about this. I was looking at all of our labels and we normally do a lot of kind of like geographic, like, you know, vistas or something on our, on our beers. This one's more focused in on the hops, so it's not like, it's not different. But at the same time, a reach is also, uh, if you look up the definition, one of its many definitions is actually like a stretch of river, a straight expanse of stream. So that worked very nicely because we have a lot of streams and rivers and stuff on our, um, on our labels. So hop reach ended up being just kind of really cool from a lot of different directions.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Works on a lot of levels,

Brett Willis:

Tastes good too. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, so yeah, so I mean, for the beer, like, I guess, you know, we talked about sort of its profile of citrusy, tropical, sort of balanced 6.8%, you know, like is it super hazy? And if it's not super hazy, why isn't it super hazy? I don't know. Like, you know, what would, what, what's the thought there?

Naomi Neville:

Yeah, it is definitely not super hazy. I think we're kind of dialing in the haze right now, but it, it, it couldn't be described as like a New England hazy ipa Right? Very much not that, um, you know, and why isn't it like those beers are brewed with, you know, specific ingredients to give you specific taste and flavor and aroma profiles and the beer that we created and that we wanted to create just didn't fit with that. So, you know, we know they're super popular. We enjoy drinking them from other people too. Uh, was just, we were going for something different with our ipa. Um, so, you know, we're excited to do sort of a more, I don't know, like classic take on the ipa. Sure. Um, so it's a, it's definitely a hazy as you know, definitely a growing segment. Some of those Imperial IPAs are definitely a growing segment. There is a lot of growth on sort of like the margins of the IPA category, but where we are playing right now, um, you know, it's, we are in that middle space at the IPA where it's about three times the size of the hazy IPA category. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and the ABV we're aiming for is like the majority of beers out there. So it's like, I don't know, sounds really boring to say. It's like right in the middle, but it's, it's an enjoyable middle.<laugh>, Yes. I guess it's, yeah, it's something you could have a couple of, it's not gonna wreck your palate. It's, you know, something you can just go back and have another and relax with friends, you know, and come back to him, revisit it multiple times a week.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. Naomi, did you get, you know, as we were starting this process of brewing the ipa, what sort of feedback did you get from the sales team? I feel they're out in the field. They're talking to partners every day. I'm sure they're, you know, just as much as our tasting room folks getting asked for IPAs from our partners, from drinkers. What were, what, what was some of the initial feedback that you got from the team

Naomi Neville:

To start with? They were incredibly excited that we were thinking of brewing an IPA and that it was gonna be a national release and a year-round beer. I mean, that's pretty big for us. We don't release a lot of year round beers you, we don't switch things up that much. Um, so that was a pretty, pretty exciting thing for them. Um, and then they were actually able to be involved in the feedback, which was really awesome. And, you know, a huge shout out to our QC team, Matthew Davis and Karl for allowing them to be part of that feedback. So they actually got to try the From Maine, With Love number 19 samples that were shipped to them. And then they remotely, you know, in 19 states and DC filled out their evaluation form. And that was, you know, another part of how we evaluated this beer and tweaked it and changed it up. So being able to be a part of it, I think is so exciting. I mean, it's such an engaged sales team that they really wanna be able to give feedback and say how they feel about it. So I was so happy we were able to do that.

Brett Willis:

That's great. And, and I mean, I feel like we kind of experienced that as well, where as we were coming up with the branding of this beer, we were also tasting all the different versions that the pilot team was putting out there. So I feel like it was this cool back and forth of ideas that were popping up. So it was fun

Naomi Neville:

Really was. And the, some of the pilot team and the brewers were in some of the branding meetings and Yeah, it was, it was really unique,

Brett Willis:

I think. Yeah, I think this was, you know, we commented on how this was sort of the, the most extensive, most inclusive process that we've ever gone through and, and certainly that we as an organization have ever undertaken

Jeff Piller-Shore:

On a personal level. It was so extraordinary to be involved with so many different people across the brewery and bring in so many different perspectives early on. And so, you know, we were able, as, as non-brewers on this podcast, we were able to offer our inputs to people who are extraordinary expert brewers, and they really cared what we had to say. And my hope is that we were able to create similar experiences for people who are non marketers, but really offered some extraordinary insights that ended up steering the direction that we went in. Uh, from the earliest meetings that we had, uh, talking about this beer, we had members of the same brewing team that were brewing and developing the beer. Uh, they were looking at our early creative concepts. And it was an extraordinary learning process for us as an organization because, you know, in the early beer pilots, um, you Patrick, uh, who's just an amazing brew at, bring in these four beers. And he'd say, Okay, so, uh, ignore uh, the alcohol level on this one and ignore the haze level on this one. And actually this one might be, And he'd go on through all these things that you needed to sort of not pay attention to. And then you would ask this extraordinary question to give feedback. And, you know, I felt a little tongue-tied about that. And then we would flip it around and we would have these early creative meetings where we would show like two dozen different concepts and we'd say, Okay, ignore the colors, ignore the font. Um, we would actually draw this differently.<laugh>, it's not gonna look anything like this, but other than that, what do you think? And then we would sort of watch the reaction on their faces. And, um, but all of that included, we got great insights from them on what branding really resonated for them on what they felt that this beer was gonna feel like. And so even though we were doing this in parallel, I think the reason that we were able to end up with a, a brand that did feel so similar to the beer inside is because we had, you know, Corey and Zach and Patrick and Jason in those early meetings from the beginning. And then that we were able to get Karri and Susie and other people outside of the room, uh, from the sales team and so on, tasting the beer and also looking at the brand at the same time.

Liz Wilson:

Awesome. Yeah, I feel like you just recapped a year in like two minutes<laugh>. Yeah.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Super easy. There were definitely no curveballs

Brett Willis:

In there,

Liz Wilson:

No crying smooth sail.

Brett Willis:

It was just seamless<affirmative>. Yeah. I mean, I'd wonder, I if, I feel like it'd be fun to actually go back and look at literally how many versions of this label Todd created. Yeah. Probably in like the fifties, if not

Jeff Piller-Shore:

It was, it was close. It depends on what you honestly, what you count as a version. Cause I did some of that counting right. Uh, before our June meeting. Uh, but it was astonishing because, you know, there were dozens if not a hundred plus names and then there were these different brand families that were all considered. And then under the brand families there were dozens of different alternates for that. So collectively it's certainly north of a hundred different variations that we considered. And it was exciting because oftentimes the thing wasn't the thing or even the thing that it led to, but it was the thing that that thing led to that ended up, uh, really unlocking something.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. And there's also a lot of fruitful effort in there. Like additionally, because it's all these ideas we now have in our roster to say like, Oh, well maybe we like, oh, we have a new beer coming out. Oh remember that beer that remember that idea that wasn't perfect for hop reach? Boom, there you go. That's perfect for that beer. Amazing.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Yeah. That, that really raises a great question, which is, you know, so so does this mean this is the best possible brand? And what it, the way that we think about it is it's the right brand for this beer and for this release. The other brands that we didn't use for this are amazing. Like, folks really, really enjoyed them internally, not just on the marketing team. There were some really cool stuff that came out of it, but it didn't meet those needs that we described from the beginning that it wasn't as accessible, it wasn't as inclusive and it certainly didn't tell you right off the bat what to expect out

Brett Willis:

Of this beer.

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. I can't wait to start getting feedback, um, from people on it, but we'll see.

Brett Willis:

We'll see. Uh, so you

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Think people will offer their feedback online, Liz? I'm, I'm not sure.

Brett Willis:

No.

Liz Wilson:

<laugh> never<laugh>.

Brett Willis:

People don't do that. No. People don't really like to

Jeff Piller-Shore:

No, they're very shy. We need to encourage

Brett Willis:

Yeah.

Naomi Neville:

We want the feedback though.

Brett Willis:

We do, we do want the feedback and we appreciate the feedback too. You don't wanna be yeah, too coy about it. It's actually really helpful when people tell us exactly what they think on our social media platforms because then we can take that and say, Whoa, I didn't, I wasn't expecting that. Or, you know, factor into future decisions. So raise your voice. Yeah,

Liz Wilson:

We read'em all.

Brett Willis:

Use your voice as power. We do. We literally do. Yep. Read all

Liz Wilson:

Of them. Yep.

Brett Willis:

So nitty gritty, Naomi, how did we decide on the packages then? On the sizes, you know, what was this gonna go into? Cans versus bottles versus draft, you know, where did we land?

Naomi Neville:

Yeah, we're gonna be doing three, um, different types of can packages and drafts. So we're gonna do 12 ounce, 12 packs, 12 ounce, six pack of cans, and also 16 ounce, four pack of cans. It was, get all that mixed up, but that's what we're doing. Um, we chose cans. I mean, you probably all know anecdotally when you look at a shelf set that the majority of IPAs are in cans and not bottles. Um, I just looked at it last week at 77% of the IPAs were in cans, not bottles. Wow. So definitely the preferred pack size, um, for drinkers out there. So that's why we pick cans and then, you know, the most popular pack sizes and then draft. We do think, you know, that this will be a great draft beer, um, in addition to a white beer on tap. So pretty excited by that.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Also a 750mL Cork-and-Cage bottle.

Liz Wilson:

<laugh>, yes.

Brett Willis:

Not 375mL Jeff?

Naomi Neville:

Edit button edit<laugh>.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

I do, I do. This is obviously not for the podcast, but I can, I can still recall being in the room when we were discussing whether or not Hugh Malone could go from being in a 750mL to a four-pack of bottles. It was not a comfortable switch. Not an obvious change. It was like, are we sure? Sorry, Liz. I stepped on my

Liz Wilson:

Yeah, no, I was gonna say, when, when can people expect to find this in stores near them?

Naomi Neville:

Oh my gosh. Drum roll please. Jeff, can you hit the filing cabinet below your foot there so that we could get like, there's everything. Yeah, there we go. I love it. Think

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Someone's gonna check.

Naomi Neville:

All right. So coming soon to a retailer Near you, we are gonna launch this beer, um, at the start of next year. Um, a lot of people might be like, Why are you gonna launch something in January? Dry January is a thing. Nobody's drinking, everybody's done from the holidays. But a lot of, uh, big sort of chain retail, um, supermarkets, they reset their shelves in the spring. So they kind of look at what's performing well, what's underperforming, and they put in, you know, their, their best new shelf set, um, in the spring. So that happens anywhere. So it's sort of late January through to March. So it'll be kind of like on a rolling basis that you'll see it rolled out to, um, an area in new you. Um, just wanna put a big plug in for our beer finder on our website. So if you are curious, please go there. Type in your zip code, look for IPA and you know, you'll be able to see it there better than anywhere else. So, um, always encourage people to call ahead or if you don't see it somewhere, um, ask someone to bring it in for you. A lot of that like, we like to hear what you are all thinking, uh, retail stores like to hear what that customers want. So feel free to ask for it.

Liz Wilson:

Yes. And Naomi is referring to our website allagash.com/locator. You know, you're very welcome. There

Brett Willis:

It is. Wait, I wanna see if that actually, sorry. You can do, you can also do beer dash finder. I wanna make sure locator works.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Make it work, right? Make it work. It sounds good. I'm

Brett Willis:

Sure it does. I'm gonna go on the back end. I'm gonna go hacker typer

Jeff Piller-Shore:

And just

Liz Wilson:

Start

Brett Willis:

Bring, So you can do beer dash finder or locator or you could just go to our homepage. And the very second thing on our homepage if you scroll down, is a link to that beer finder. So we put it in many places.

Naomi Neville:

Very useful tool. Yes.

Brett Willis:

Um,

Liz Wilson:

Yeah. And we'll be releasing it in the tasting room, um, as well. And we'll, we'll announce all those fun dates, um, as we get a little bit closer. So, uh, it's gonna be an exciting start to

Naomi Neville:

Yeah, it really is.

Brett Willis:

Really looking forward to it.

Naomi Neville:

Something to look forward to in January. Right. You know, like is the holidays are over, you're like, ugh. You know, it's cold. Yeah.

Brett Willis:

We tend to need that.

Jeff Piller-Shore:

Just wanna like reach for something,

Naomi Neville:

You know. Exactly.

Liz Wilson:

<laugh>.

Naomi Neville:

Right. What do you wanna reach for?

Jeff Piller-Shore:

I should, I would like to reach for one today.

Brett Willis:

Oh. How's everyone feel? Do you feel like we, we, uh, covered everything you were hoping to talk about?

All:

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Brett Willis:

This has been an Allagash Brewing production. If you have something you want us to talk about on the show, shoot us a message podcast@allagash. com. And, as always, thanks for listening.