From Maine, With Love - An Allagash Brewing Podcast

S1 Episode 15: Hop Reach - How Does It Taste?

• Allagash Brewing Company • Season 1 • Episode 15

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In this final episode covering our upcoming IPA, Hop Reach, we answer the question on everyone’s mind: what does it taste like? To help us answer that question in delicious depth, we have Corey McNutt, a senior brewer who was on the team that created Hop Reach, and Lindsay Bohanske, our resident tour & tasting aficionado and Certified Cicerone. Keep a beer nearby, because this one might make you thirsty.

Brett Willis:

This is From Maine, with Love, an Allagash Brewing podcast where we talk about beer, our community here in Maine, and things that generally make us happy. This is our third episode about Hop Reach, our upcoming ipa. And it's a really fun one because I'm talking with Corey, one of our senior brewers, and Lindsay Bohansky, our hospitality and education specialist who talks to a lot of people about beer and knows just a ton about beer. She's a certified Cicerone. And we just really talk about what does this beer taste like? You know, what is there, what is the flavor to expect? What are the elements of the beer and what are they contributing to it? And, uh, just really to get an idea of kind of the whole picture, you know, how does it taste? So if you are interested, uh, and you don't have this beer in front of you just yet, this is a great episode to listen to that will make you really, really want a beer. Uh, if that sounds good to you, then listen on. So, I'm Brett Willis, uh, and with me I have Lindsay Bohansky, our hospitality and education specialist.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Hello.

Brett Willis:

Hello. And Corey McNutt, Senior Brewer here at Allagash. Hi Corey. Welcome. Um, so we've talked, this is kind of part three of this series about Hop Reach IPA, a new beer that we have coming out in January, 2023. And so we talked about creating it. Well, you know what went into basically brewing that beer and coming up with a recipe. And then we also had another podcast about branding and thinking about how we're gonna, you know, bring that beer to you, all of our fans. And now we're gonna talk about something much more exciting than all of those. How does it taste? How does the beer taste? Uh, but before we do that, we gotta ask a couple questions of our, of our, uh, guests. So, Lindsay, what is your favorite wood to work with?

Lindsay Bohanske:

That's such a good question. I'm glad, I'm glad. It's tough cuz my favorite wood is probably not my favorite wood to work with. Ah, because there are certain woods that are like curly and have all this beautiful figure in them, but then working with them is a nightmare cuz they're really unpredictable, whatever. Anyway, my favorite wood to work with, I would say probably is Walnut.

Brett Willis:

What sort of thing are you making with that? Like,

Lindsay Bohanske:

Um, we're actually in the middle of this crazy table project where we're doing a custom table for a local restaurant, actually.

Brett Willis:

Ooh, that's pretty cool.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Very cool. Ash and walnut.

Brett Willis:

Wow. How big a table is it?

Lindsay Bohanske:

Pretty dang big. It's huge. It's ridiculously huge. It's like 18 feet.

Brett Willis:

Whoa.

Lindsay Bohanske:

It's really three tables that are joined together. It's like a big communal table.

Brett Willis:

I was gonna say, like, where do you store that in your garage?

Lindsay Bohanske:

We have a workshop in our basement. Okay. Yeah.

Brett Willis:

<laugh> a big basement door. Get it outta there. That's awesome. Yeah. That's really cool. All right, Corey, uh, I got a good one for you. What is your ideal size of dog?

Corey McNutt:

Oh, man. Uh, that's a tough one. Brett

Lindsay Bohanske:

<laugh>. That's a real zinger.

Brett Willis:

Uh, you know, he doesn't, you don't have to have an ideal size, but I,

Corey McNutt:

Well we actually, we have two dogs at home. Okay. Uh, and one is about 75 pounds. Okay. Yeah. So he's a pretty good size. Um, and then the other one's about 45. So she's a little smaller, you know, she's a little more nimble. She runs really fast,<laugh>. Um, so somewhere, I guess kind of in between those two. I mean, they're both good sizes, you know, and they're both, they're own, but, uh, maybe somewhere, you know, 60 pounds or so, something like that.

Brett Willis:

I like that. Yeah. I've got, I've got an 80 pound dog.

Corey McNutt:

That's a lot.

Brett Willis:

It's a lot. And it's, he's like, he's not like large, he's just like tall and like, it's a German short-haired pointer. So like, he's, he's just, he's tall. He, they're not supposed to be even be that big, but he's just also like a very muscular, like, fast dog. Oh yeah. He's just intense. Just intensity. But I feel like that 50 pound range.

Corey McNutt:

Yeah, it's a good, it's a nice range. You can still pick him up.

Brett Willis:

If you need to Yeah. Yeah. Lift him into the car or something.

Lindsay Bohanske:

It's so funny cuz we had, uh, we actually lost our little, little baby Toy Fox terrier last year. And he was,

Brett Willis:

I'm sorry.

Lindsay Bohanske:

He was like, a rescue was like this dog that kind of came to us randomly. Yeah. And I never would've thought that I would want a small dog ever.

Brett Willis:

Yeah.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Yeah. But he was the best dog I've ever had. Wow. And he was like, nine pounds. What?

Corey McNutt:

That's crazy.

Brett Willis:

I feel like that's

Lindsay Bohanske:

The, was so small. But, so he had such big personality and he was so cuddly.

Brett Willis:

That's awesome. I feel like that's the size of dog where like, when you go to pick it up, you like expect too much weight and it feels like they're like filled with helium.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Totally. Travis. His name was Travis. Travis.

Brett Willis:

That's a good dog name<laugh>. It's a good dog name. Patrick. Patrick has a great dog name too. Patrick, who was on an earlier episode. His dog's name's Kevin. Great dog name

Lindsay Bohanske:

People names for dogs.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. My dog's name is Chip. Good. Good people. Dog names. Great. All right. Right onto the, uh, the main event of this talking about Hop Reach ipa. How does it taste? Let's open these cans. I'm so excited. All right. You can, you can grab one. You can open one too. I'm, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it right by the, the mic.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Ooh. Oh yeah. That might be one of the sexiest sounds in the world.<laugh>.

Brett Willis:

That was pretty good. That was better than expected.<laugh>. Yeah. You pour, pour yourself on as much as you'd like. Here you go.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Oh, thank you.

Brett Willis:

So I guess, you know, we can take a sip, but I think the mm-hmm.<affirmative> to, to, to step back before we talk about this exact beer, I, I don't wanna tease it, but I just want to like kind of set the stage of like, you know, what do you both kind of expect from a quintessential IPA? Like what are you kind of looking for?

Corey McNutt:

You know, for me, I'm, I'm kind of looking for something that kind of has a, a little bit of a dynamic aroma to it. You know, something a little more complex. Right. Um, kind of something that has a little bit of everything to it. You know, a little bit of citrus character, a little bit of tropical fruits in there. Kind of some, you know, some Piney notes, some fresh cut grass type stuff on the back end. So that's usually what I'm looking for.

Brett Willis:

Nice. Lindsay,

Lindsay Bohanske:

You know, I love IPAs but I tend more towards like the really well balanced, like crisp finish. I don't love it when IPAs are like really lingering on the palate. Sure. Where it, like you get that hop burst but then it almost sort of evaporates and you're just sort of like, Dang, I want another sip. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I can't stand it when IPAs just like, sit on your tongue and just crushes your palate. Like, I like those like fast-hitting, like bright, refreshing kind of IPAs.

Brett Willis:

Nice. Right. Take a sip. We'll talk about this beer. Let's do it. I wanna hear both of you just kind of impressions. Well that smell good.

Corey McNutt:

Yeah. That smells awesome. Yeah.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Wow. It's interesting how this beer changes as you drink it. Like that first aroma to like the first like part of your tongue and then the after taste. It's such a ride. Like it's not consistent. I feel like sometimes with IPAs it's just as kind of that same flavor and taste kind of hits you in all in the same way. But I love how that really has such a, I dunno; it's very complex.

Brett Willis:

Totally. Totally. Yeah. Do we have any specific, like notes we're getting? Cause we talked about it in the past couple podcasts. We've talked about how, you know, we're going for that citrus, tropical, piney. But like, are there, are there any more specific aromas I guess, that we're getting in this one?

Corey McNutt:

Yeah, I mean, totally for me, I'm, I'm kind of getting the orange mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, grapefruit, a little bit of lime zest kind right up front. Yeah. Um, and then I get some of that kind of pineapple, maybe papaya sort of maybe a hint of melon. Um, and then I'm really getting that fresh-cut grass, you know, and some kind of coniferous notes.

Brett Willis:

That's nice.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Yeah. Definitely that pine note in the finish. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Totally. I also get like a watermelon rind kind of goes with that grassy note.

Brett Willis:

I could see that, you know,

Lindsay Bohanske:

Totally that kind of like green, like bright kind of melon flavor. But then you also get that kind of grassy note too, like that.

Brett Willis:

And it really does, like we talked about this in the first one, when we were talking about making the beer, but like it is really cool how this beer, you go through that ride, you know, you have the aroma, you have kind of the taste as you're swallowing it, the retronasal, and then by the end of it, it's kind of that like, just kind of disappears. Yeah. And you're just like, I need another sip. I really want to just see that again. And so it's not like it's, it's hanging around anyway. I mean, you get some bitterness for sure. There's that snap of bitterness.

Corey McNutt:

I feel like it's that level of bitterness where it's like, it, it keeps you coming back and it's not too much and it's just enough to like make you want to have another sip.

Brett Willis:

Totally.

Lindsay Bohanske:

And remind you this is an IPA.

Corey McNutt:

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. There's hops in it.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. There, there are certainly hops in it. That is a fantastic segue cuz I have, I have the hops that we used on, you know, on this one. And I guess like Corey is there, like, do you think it would be possible to think about what hops we used and kind of think about what they're actually, uh, contributing to the beer? Like, you know, I don't know if you could remember'em off the top of your head. I have'em in front of me, but

Corey McNutt:

Yeah. So I think, you know, in the Whirlpool it's, uh, it's Mosaic and then Idaho 7 cryo. I believe. And um, you know, for me, Idaho 7 is really those kind of tangerine orange notes mm-hmm.<affirmative> to it big time. Yeah. And then mosaic, you know, was kind of more tropical fruit for me. Little bit of pine, little bit of kind of berry sweet fruits. Sure. Sorta to it.

Brett Willis:

Cool.

Lindsay Bohanske:

God, as soon as you said the word tangerine, I was like"yes."

Corey McNutt:

Yeah. Idaho 7. It was like tangerine.

Brett Willis:

That's, yeah. That's awesome. It is so interesting how like, as soon as someone says something that like aroma or flavor can jump out of like kind of this balanced blend of flavors of just like, Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. There that is. Get it now. Totally. That's awesome. Yeah. So I think also like the, so obviously hops are the star of the show, but I'm also, I feel like malt is just like the, the malt, the grain bill and kind of the malt sort of like, uh, flavor profile in this beer is super important. It's super important to support those. So I guess like, I want to hear kind of from both of you what you feel like is coming out of the, the actual grains we use in this and the malt.

Corey McNutt:

You know, I think, uh, we've gotta, you know, kind of a nice diverse grain bill for this beer. And I think, you know, you know, the white, the raw white wheat, the, the Munich malt, um, the, uh, car pills, it's all kind of lending some, some body, some more body to it. Sure. Um, you know, and the Munich kind of lends some of that malty, bready, you know, cracker-type aromas and flavors. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, that's

Brett Willis:

Definitely getting crackery.

Corey McNutt:

Yeah, yeah. Totally. You know, and then the carapils just, I, I feel like helps out, you know, with a little bit of body, but also more foam stability. You know, you get a nice, you know, some nice foam on it.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Yeah. I was gonna say it's sitting in the glass. It's still got some nice, Yeah. Little bit ahead

Corey McNutt:

On. It's good. Yeah. Nice retention on it. Um, but also, Brett, you wanna talk about dry hops too?

Brett Willis:

I do. I do want us talk about dry hops.

Corey McNutt:

Okay. So I think, you know, for me, me personally, you know, Cashmere kind of lends that it, it's, it's Cashmere, El Dorado, a little bit of Cascade, et cetera. Sure. So we kind of, we do a double dry hop on it. We, the first dry hop is Cascade, which obviously I think lends those, you know, grapefruit, piney notes to it. And then I think, you know, the El Dorado for me is that kind of pineapple, tropical fruit for me. That's the big tropical fruit for me in this one. Hmm. Um, and then Citra obviously some nice orangey citrus notes mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, and the cashmere for me has always been kind of like a lemon-lime zest type character. Sure. You know,

Lindsay Bohanske:

I feel like this is one of those beers where you can pick it apart and like really think about every element of the flavor. But then also in the end, it's just a really, really easy-drinking ipa, like, I feel like I love that about our beers where like you could really like sit down and think about'em. You know, I think that's sort of a hallmark of what we do here at Allagash. Well is like, we can make these beers that are so complex. They have all these amazing flavors, but at the end of the day, they're well balanced and easy drinking too. Which I just like, I think that's one of the things I'm obsessed with about with this one.

Brett Willis:

Yeah. A hundred percent. And it's funny, you like basically preempted my next question because it's like, you know, for you Lindsay, as a person who speaks it with a lot of our guests, you know, like, how would you encapsulate this beer? And I think that that's kind of the encapsulation, you know, 100% percent.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Yeah. I mean I feel like it's just, it's really drinkable, but also you get those bright hop notes, you get like a hand of bitterness. You know, if, if I didn't tell you what this was and you took a sip of it, you'd be like, Oh, this is an ipa, this is great. You know, like, this is awesome. Um, but you know, if you wanna really tease apart the flavor, it's got a lot of layers to it. Yeah.

Brett Willis:

And I think, like, I had that experience too, like for this particular beer, we were encouraged to take it home to try it and to see if we had any other thoughts about it. Cuz you know, we were still, you know, in the r&d phases of it, there are still tweaks we can make potentially before it comes out. And so it was, okay, we brewed this batch, take it home, share it with friends, like hang out. Just, just enjoy it. And that was just such a fun experience with this beer in particular because we had all been, I think, internally picking it apart and thinking about it in that super analytical way here. And then when I was at home, you know, sitting on my couch, I was just like, Yes, it was good. I had nothing else to say about it.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Yeah, I know. I'm just excited that we're gonna have a beer that is like just a super crushable IPA that we can take home now.<laugh>.

Brett Willis:

Exactly.

Lindsay Bohanske:

My husband loves those too. He's he's super pumped about it. When we were doing that trial phase where Right. We bring it home and taste it. He was super, super into it. Can you get us some more of that beer<laugh>?

Brett Willis:

Well it sounds like we might be doing one more trial batch. Is that right?

Corey McNutt:

Yeah, that's what I heard. Heard. Yeah.

Brett Willis:

Awesome. That'll be good. All right. Speaking of which, I mean, I feel like we picked this apart pretty well and it like Yeah. I'm sure there's more we could say, but I think, uh, just kind of like stepping back to just the process of making this beer. I guess I, this kind of goes for, for both of you. I think it's, it may be a little more Corey specific, but, you know, has this beer opened up some new ideas for like, folks on the pilot team or for you for pilot ideas?

Corey McNutt:

Totally. 100%. I mean, when we started this, it was just crazy to see how many new hop products are out there now. Right. And it's, it's cool to see that the industry still being innovative and, and creating these new products. And there's so much more now as a brewer to kind of choose from. Yeah. You know, when you're trying to come up with a beer and, uh, it, it, it's just crazy how many products are out there now. Totally.

Brett Willis:

That's fun. Have you thought of any happy beers for the Pilot Team?

Lindsay Bohanske:

Yeah, I guess it just sort of opens up this door of, you know, we've always experimented with IPAs and hops here at Allagash. In, you know, some limited ways in the past. Yeah. But it's exciting to think that there's potentially more, more to play with. Yeah. And I, I mean, to Corey's point, like looking and watching the whole iterations of this process and trying so many different trials and being like, Oh, this is cryo hops and this is, you know, just understanding just the breadth of different hop products. Like you said, Corey, like, it definitely made me think like, wow, okay. We could really, there's so many starting off points, you know, if you choose a style like, you know, bier de garde or whatever, something that's a little bit more, you know, refined and more, I don't know, classically Allagashy if you will, like, if we wanted to like, you know, just thinking about different ways to spice something like that up and try and use different flavor attributes and get those not necessarily from yeast character, which is I think primarily or my mind goes Yep. Um, to using more of like a hop flavor and character to come up with some of those pilot ideas. So.

Brett Willis:

Totally. And it, it makes me think of too, like, um, how by you doing certain methods that you use in an ipa, you can get flavors that are not quote unquote hoppy. Like, I'm thinking of 16 counties, you know, we dry hop this beer 16 counties that's only available in Maine. And it, you would not take that beer and say, Oh, this tastes like it's dry-hopped. Like, it just is like, it's this adding this extra roundness of character that that brings another layer to that beer using hops in a totally unexpected way. And I feel like that's just such a fun part of the whole process is how much versatility there is in.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Absolutely. Well, even just like the, one of the most recent From Maine, With Love beers is the dry-hopped saison. Right. And I feel like that extra dry hopping, it just gives it a little bit more brightness. It kind of gives it more of that citrusy element. So using some of the different hop products to achieve stuff like that, I think is really cool.

Brett Willis:

Totally. All right. My final question. You know, where or what is the situation in which you are most excited to enjoy a Hop Reach IPA?

Corey McNutt:

Oh man. Pretty much anywhere.<laugh>, uh, probably for me, like out on the golf course or something.

Brett Willis:

You know, that's a good one.

Corey McNutt:

Sunny, nice, nice weather. Yeah, That's a very good one. Pretty much anywhere. Yeah.<laugh>

Lindsay Bohanske:

This to me is like a happy hour beer. Yeah. You know, it's like that that end of the day you're craving something, you know, that's, you know, very much a beer. And to me, like IPA is like, you know. Very much a beer. Yeah. Um, and so just, you know, at the end of the day, you know, go down to the tasting room, have a pint.

Brett Willis:

That's nice.<laugh>. I was just like, I was like racking my brain cuz I didn't think about an answer to this. I actually like, didn't give it any forethought, but I did come up with an answer for myself and that is at the grill.

Corey McNutt:

Oh, nice. Yep.

Brett Willis:

I think it's just one of those beers where I can just imagine being like, Yes, this is exactly what I wanted while grilling up some food. So, So one of the things, uh, to note about this beer is it is not particularly hazy. Is there anything that you're thinking about that Corey,

Corey McNutt:

I think we're looking for a light. Okay. A real light haze. Okay.

Brett Willis:

What is that? Does that add anything in particular is an aesthetic thing? Or is it...

Corey McNutt:

I think mostly it's, it's an an aesthetic thing. You know, people see it. I mean, part of drinking beer is, is with your eyes and. Um, I think it's partially aesthetic. I think there is a little bit of, you know, aroma and flavor characteristics that kind of come with it as well. Sure. So I think we're looking for a light haze to it.

Brett Willis:

Right. Cause what we're drinking is a, uh, an R&D batch of that beer, trying it out on the bigger system. So it will, you know, it, it will change a little bit from this one, I think. Not in any significant way, but just interesting to note. Yeah. Well, thank you both for taking the time. This is awesome. Yeah.

Corey McNutt:

Thanks Brett.

Brett Willis:

Yeah.

Lindsay Bohanske:

Cheers guys.

Brett Willis:

Cheers. This has been an Allagash Brewing production. If you have something you want us to talk about on the show, shoot us a message at podcast@allagash. com.