S3 Episode 7: Hazy Days

We got some pretty amazing comments when we announced the release of our Hazy IPA. (Two of these are true, one is not.)

1: Never thought I’d see the day 😍 

2: Definitely one of the four horsemen of the beer apocalypse

3: I’m going to name my baby Allagash Hazy IPA

In our latest podcast, we had our brewmaster read and react to comments like these, and more! Plus, we talked about our thought process behind the recipe, as well as the finished product. Give it a listen!

Transcript

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<Brett Willis>This is From Maine, With Love, An Allagash Brewing Podcast, where we talk about beer, our community here in Maine, and things that generally make us hazy boys.

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<Brett Willis>Oh, sorry, things that generally make us happy.

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<Brett Willis>We're here to talk about hazy beer, specifically a hazy IPA.

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<Brett Willis>And to talk about it with us, we have Jason Perkins, our brewmaster.

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<Brett Willis>Good to see you.

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<Jason Perkins>Good to see you too, Brad.

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<Brett Willis>Thank you.

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<Brett Willis>And Liz Wilson, our marketing manager, is joining us too.

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<Liz Wilson>Hello.

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<Brett Willis>Good to see you too.

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<Jason Perkins>We should talk about how Liz's headphones are like way cooler than the rest of ours.

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<Jason Perkins>She's an influencer.

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<Jason Perkins>Is that real gold?

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<Liz Wilson>Yes.

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<Liz Wilson>Thanks.

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<Liz Wilson>Yes.

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<Brett Willis>Those are pretty amazing.

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<Liz Wilson>I bought these in my New York City days, and they've lasted quite some time.

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<Jason Perkins>They're not even cool enough to even wear them.

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<Brett Willis>I'm just feeling good by being in the room with them.

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<Liz Wilson>Oh, gosh.

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<Liz Wilson>Wow.

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<Liz Wilson>Have a great morning.

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<Brett Willis>Let's get these secret questions out of the way.

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<Brett Willis>I made them short, but they're still going to be fun.

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<Brett Willis>Jason, you're up first, and the question is, waffles or pancakes?

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<Jason Perkins>Oh, pancakes.

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<Brett Willis>Wow.

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<Jason Perkins>I'm a waffles guy.

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<Jason Perkins>I had to hesitate, right?

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<Jason Perkins>Because we love our Belgium things.

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<Brett Willis>Sure, sure.

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<Jason Perkins>I just offended the country.

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<Jason Perkins>But I do a street waffle in Belgium.

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<Jason Perkins>It's my favorite thing in the world.

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<Brett Willis>I would say the street waffle in Belgium I had was almost more pancake-like, because the waffles that I normally have are hyper crispy.

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<Brett Willis>They're mostly crisp and a little airy inside, whereas the street waffle I had almost had a chew to it.

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<Brett Willis>You know like how an Italian pizza, like they have a chew to the crust almost?

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<Brett Willis>I don't know.

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<Brett Willis>So I could see there being some sort of crossover.

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<Brett Willis>Well, there's a lot of crossover.

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<Brett Willis>There was like two ingredients that were different between them.

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<Liz Wilson>Does Julie have a preference that is similar to yours?

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<Jason Perkins>I think she's pancakes as well.

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<Jason Perkins>My kids are more waffles, so it ends up being a little more waffle in my house.

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<Jason Perkins>But I'm a huge pancake fan, especially like something like a buckwheat pancake or a whole wheat pancake, you know?

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<Jason Perkins>So you're like, and then what would the pancakes, the lunch pancakes on the Allagash River trip?

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<Jason Perkins>You take the leftover pancakes from the morning and you spread peanut butter and jelly on them and they become sandwich bread?

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<Brett Willis>Yeah.

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<Liz Wilson>It's pretty great.

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<Brett Willis>It's an incredible.

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<Liz Wilson>Sand cakes.

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<Liz Wilson>Sandwich cakes.

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<Jason Perkins>That's right.

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<Brett Willis>The Northwoods crepe.

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<Brett Willis>Yeah, those are so good.

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<Brett Willis>I actually like when I make pancakes for my kids, if there's leftover batter, I'll make two extra giant pancakes and then make a PB&J and bring it to work.

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<Brett Willis>I've done that.

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<Liz Wilson>What?

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

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<Liz Wilson>I did not know this was a thing.

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<Jason Perkins>I always went make extra pancakes so I can have-

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<Liz Wilson>I've been making extra pancakes, but I have not been making them into PB&Js.

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<Brett Willis>We'll convert you.

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<Brett Willis>It's so good.

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<Liz Wilson>I'm also team pancake.

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<Liz Wilson>Wow.

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<Brett Willis>What is it about them?

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<Brett Willis>What, like, is it just-

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<Brett Willis>why?

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<Liz Wilson>I think-

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<Liz Wilson>I like that-

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<Liz Wilson>I think because your reason of them being crispy, like, I don't enjoy that as much as just like a well-cooked fluffy pancake.

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<Liz Wilson>I add my blueberries and my chocolate chips, and that's how I like to eat pancakes.

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<Brett Willis>Chocolate chips, that's good.

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<Jason Perkins>Both.

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<Jason Perkins>Both in one pancake.

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<Jason Perkins>Yeah, that's a good move.

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<Brett Willis>Yeah.

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<Brett Willis>Matt was kind enough to make us pancakes the other day, and I tried that.

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<Brett Willis>I think I got a little piece of one of those, and it was really good.

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<Liz Wilson>People think it's wild, but do not actually try it.

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<Brett Willis>People think you're crazy.

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<Liz Wilson>They sure do.

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<Brett Willis>Blueberries in you.

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<Liz Wilson>I got a secret question for you.

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<Brett Willis>All right.

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<Liz Wilson>Brett, what is the winning strategy for a game of rock, paper, scissors, shoot?

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<Brett Willis>That's a good question.

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<Brett Willis>I feel like there is actual math where it's like, if you choose the thing that your opponent did, like if they did paper, you choose the thing that loses to paper, I think.

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<Brett Willis>You choose rock intentionally after they throw paper, and then somehow that math works out that they're going to throw scissors or something.

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<Liz Wilson>Interesting.

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<Brett Willis>There's definitely something there, but how do you do that quickly?

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<Brett Willis>I just throw random stuff.

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<Brett Willis>I don't know.

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<Liz Wilson>It's a teaser.

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<Liz Wilson>We're going to have a rock, paper, scissors contest at the brewery in the next couple of weeks.

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<Liz Wilson>Stay tuned.

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<Brett Willis>It's exciting.

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<Brett Willis>I'm really excited about that.

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<Brett Willis>Should I explain it?

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<Brett Willis>It's really quick to explain.

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<Brett Willis>No, I'm not going to explain it.

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<Brett Willis>Rock, paper, scissors competition.

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<Brett Willis>Get excited.

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<Brett Willis>All right, Jason.

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<Brett Willis>Hazy IPA.

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<Brett Willis>What?

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<Brett Willis>We just released one in the tasting room at this point.

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<Brett Willis>It's in four packs of 16-ounce cans.

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<Brett Willis>And we have the ingredients here.

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<Brett Willis>I feel like the most notable.

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<Brett Willis>Actually, I didn't write down the grains.

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<Brett Willis>I feel like that's important.

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<Brett Willis>But are there any notable ingredients that you would think of for this?

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<Brett Willis>Like, that are going to be kind of setting it apart or, I mean, I don't know.

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<Jason Perkins>There are some hops in this beer.

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<Brett Willis>That's true.

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<Jason Perkins>Yeah, I mean, we, from an ingredient perspective, I mean, I think it probably fits a fairly classic profile for this style of beer.

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<Jason Perkins>So, you know, there's some oats in there, there's some wheat in there, there's some Munich malt to get a little bit more of a maltiness to it.

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<Jason Perkins>And then, of course, some portion of grain from our beautiful state of Maine in there as well.

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<Jason Perkins>Cool.

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<Jason Perkins>And, you know, the hops are, you know, we take an approach where we don't want any one specific hop character to come through.

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<Jason Perkins>I mean, a beer style like this, you do want, you know, tropical, you want, you know, quote unquote, juicy.

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<Jason Perkins>So citrus, tropical character is certainly a component there.

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<Jason Perkins>But, you know, it's not a singular one dimensional aroma.

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<Jason Perkins>It's kind of a range of things.

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<Brett Willis>Because I have, so the hops here, nugget, Chinook, mosaic, citra, Idaho 7, and El Dorado.

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<Brett Willis>Are there, is that a, are there some of those hops that have existed for longer and some that have existed more recently, like?

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<Jason Perkins>For sure.

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<Jason Perkins>Yeah.

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<Jason Perkins>I mean, hop like nugget and Chinook are kind of on the older side, if you will.

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<Jason Perkins>Still really beautiful hops, and dual purpose in most cases, like they're often used, those two hop varieties are often used on the bittering side, because they do have high alpha acid content, but they still have really nice aromas as well.

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<Jason Perkins>That I think those two in particular do provide that added layer to the other hops, which tend to be more tropical and citrus forward.

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<Jason Perkins>So you get a little bit more of, you know, some of the piney character that you'll get from those hops as well.

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<Brett Willis>So can you explain what you mean by high alpha, like what does that mean?

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<Jason Perkins>Yeah, so high alpha refers to the alpha acid content in the hop, so that's just one of several analytical measures that you can take on a specific hop variety.

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<Jason Perkins>There, it's always been, for a long time, it was the most important factor, because beers were, you know, before craft beer came along, certainly before IPAs became what they are today, the primary role of a hop was balance, was to provide bitterness, and even a beer like American style light lager, it still has a component of bitterness.

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<Jason Perkins>You don't want to ever call it a bitter beer, but without hops, it doesn't have the balance that it needs.

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<Jason Perkins>And so the big brewers were always looking for the hop that was the cheapest, that had the highest alpha, because to them, that's all that really mattered.

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<Jason Perkins>And as craft brewers grew and beer styles like IPA, with where aroma became the most important, it became this kind of thing where there's like two types of hops, alpha hops, high alpha, and then aroma.

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<Jason Perkins>And there's obviously lots of crossover between those two categories, but in theory, alpha acid hops, high alpha hops, are primarily used for bittering, and then aroma hops are bred and sourced for their specific aromatic qualities.

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<Jason Perkins>But there's lots of hops that do both really well.

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<Jason Perkins>Huh.

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<Brett Willis>What would be an example of a hop that does both well?

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<Jason Perkins>Nugget.

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<Jason Perkins>Nugget's a great one.

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<Jason Perkins>Okay.

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<Jason Perkins>One of the classic ones.

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<Jason Perkins>We use nugget pretty commonly as a bittering hop, but it is a very easy hop, you know, when grown correctly and selected correctly, it has a really nice aroma character to it as well.

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<Liz Wilson>Cool.

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

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<Liz Wilson>Tell us a little bit about the yeast in this beer.

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<Liz Wilson>I think we saw some feedback from folks online just wondering if it's the same yeast we use in Allagash White, and if it's not, did we try that, and how did we go about deciding?

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<Jason Perkins>So, short answer, this is not the yeast we use for Allagash White.

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<Jason Perkins>We didn't try it in this specific brew, but we've tried and have used what we call our house yeast, the yeast we use in Allagash White, in a bunch of hoppier beers, and it works really nicely in certain beers that we've made over the years.

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<Jason Perkins>I mean, if you go back to a beer like Hugh Malone, River Trip, a beer we made quite recently, you get the quote unquote Belgian characteristics, those kind of spicy and phenol characteristics, and then if they blend nicely with the hop right as you use it, it can work.

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<Jason Perkins>For a beer like this Hazy IPA, and even a beer like Hopreach, we kind of, in a lot of ways, want the yeast to play second fiddle, if you will.

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<Jason Perkins>It's still incredibly important.

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<Jason Perkins>You can't make beer without great yeast, of course, but it's the hop aromas that we want to really shine.

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<Jason Perkins>And so if we use a yeast like our house yeast in this beer, it would still be a delicious beer, but it would be kind of more of a marriage between the yeast aromatics and the hop aromatics, and we really want the hop aromatics to drive.

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<Jason Perkins>So we use, for this particular beer, we use an English-style yeast, very classic yeast that's used for a lot of hazy IPAs that has some fruity characteristics to the aroma, but they play nicely with the hops, and also help to contribute to haze stability in this beer, because some level of haze is an important component of this beer style.

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<Brett Willis>That's interesting.

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<Brett Willis>Yeah, because I feel that is absolutely part of this that has been so interesting, I think, for us to think about is, you know, we've been brewing a hazy beer since the very beginning, which is Allagash White.

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<Brett Willis>And so now, just the difference in reaction from, you know, a hazy beer like Allagash White to us brewing a hazy IPA, and that's kind of part of this episode, too, is just the fun of we, because we knew we were going to do this for a bit.

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<Brett Willis>And so I think we all kind of became like, yeah, we're doing a hazy IPA.

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<Brett Willis>Like, that's great.

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<Brett Willis>And then, but the time to represent to the public is like months and months after we made this decision.

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<Brett Willis>And it was just such an interesting thing to see everyone's reaction to us saying, hey, here's our hazy IPA.

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<Brett Willis>And we'll talk more about that.

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<Brett Willis>But you already mentioned the flavor profile, you know, pillowy, tropical, hint of sweetness, like all these things that you expect to find in a hazy IPA.

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<Brett Willis>I think the part about it that is the most interesting to me is this as a style is perhaps the least balanced between the separate elements of it, like almost like, you know, hops or the hops are the star, you know, they are absolutely the star.

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<Brett Willis>But I guess, how would you say that we use the other elements to accentuate the hops?

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<Brett Willis>You kind of mentioned the grains and how the we mentioned how the yeast does it, but I'm interested in how kind of the grains do that.

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<Jason Perkins>Yeah, I mean, there's the grains, there's the yeast, and it's kind of sort of having some residual sugar left in it.

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<Jason Perkins>But a big, you know, you mentioned the word pillowy, which I think is a good descriptor for our hazy IPA, but multiple other ones out there as well, where, you know, the bitterness is lower than, say, a west coast IPA, both in measured quantity, if you were to measure it in IBU, it's going to be lower, but also in the, even more importantly, in the perception.

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<Jason Perkins>So because the beer has a little bit more residual sugar in it, and some hazy IPAs are actually quite sweet.

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<Jason Perkins>I would not call ours sweet, but it has, it contributes to the body and the mouth feel.

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<Jason Perkins>So what it does is, even at a, certainly more bitterness in this beer than Allagash White, but it doesn't perceive all that bitter because you've got that kind of mouth feel and body to it, which is, I think, a really important part of this beer style.

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<Jason Perkins>And I think, for me personally, to do it well, you have to have enough body in there to give it that pillowy character, but not so much that you get through four or five sips and you're just like, I don't want any more of this because it's just so filling or so rich.

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<Jason Perkins>And I think we've found that balance with this Hazy IPA.

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

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<Brett Willis>I would 100% agree.

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<Liz Wilson>We, I took a four pack home on Saturday and there is none of the four pack left.

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<Jason Perkins>Wow!

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<Jason Perkins>It's funny, I had that problem.

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<Liz Wilson>Which feels like a good indication.

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<Brett Willis>Oh yeah, I brought four pack home.

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<Brett Willis>That was, that didn't hang around for too long.

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<Liz Wilson>No.

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<Jason Perkins>It's great.

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah, that was good.

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah, and I guess similarly, I mean, not that we, you know, take everything as gospel untapped, but I mean, early indications, 4.1, I mean.

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<Brett Willis>Out of five.

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

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<Brett Willis>Not out of ten.

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<Liz Wilson>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<Brett Willis>That's important.

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<Liz Wilson>That's important.

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<Liz Wilson>But yeah, kind of a great sort of, you know, people have been, when did it come out?

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<Liz Wilson>Only this past Thursday.

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<Brett Willis>Yeah.

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<Liz Wilson>In the tasting room.

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<Liz Wilson>A week.

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<Liz Wilson>So it's been a week.

00:13:30.617 --> 00:13:34.577

<Liz Wilson>So some great early feedback on how people are enjoying it in the tasting room.

00:13:34.577 --> 00:13:43.137

<Liz Wilson>And I feel like it's been really hot and steamy here in Maine, and this is a great beer to sort of enjoy.

00:13:43.137 --> 00:13:43.837

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:13:44.637 --> 00:13:48.537

<Brett Willis>It's hitting what people are hoping for out of the beer, which is awesome.

00:13:48.537 --> 00:13:59.817

<Brett Willis>So in that realm of what people are thinking about, the effect of us brewing this Hazy IPA has been remarkably different from us brewing Hot Breach, which was also an IPA and is one of many IPAs that we've done in the past.

00:13:59.817 --> 00:14:11.877

<Brett Willis>And so we thought it would be fun to actually provide you, Jason, with some of the social media responses that people sent in when we announced our Hazy IPA for you to read and react to.

00:14:11.877 --> 00:14:14.477

<Brett Willis>So I have them sorted into three different categories.

00:14:14.877 --> 00:14:17.537

<Brett Willis>We have pleasure, people who were very excited.

00:14:17.537 --> 00:14:20.597

<Brett Willis>We have trepidation, people who, I don't know, they didn't know what to think.

00:14:20.597 --> 00:14:24.437

<Brett Willis>And then trepidation is a little more like, I'm sad.

00:14:25.297 --> 00:14:29.677

<Brett Willis>And then disbelief and confusion, just a little bit of, you know, I don't know how to feel.

00:14:29.677 --> 00:14:31.617

<Brett Willis>So where would you like to start?

00:14:31.617 --> 00:14:35.177

<Brett Willis>We have pleasure, trepidation, or confusion?

00:14:35.177 --> 00:14:37.137

<Jason Perkins>I think it would be fun to start with confusion.

00:14:37.137 --> 00:14:39.117

<Jason Perkins>Yeah, yeah, it's great.

00:14:39.117 --> 00:14:39.737

<Jason Perkins>Just give me one.

00:14:39.737 --> 00:14:40.737

<Jason Perkins>Don't make me choose.

00:14:40.737 --> 00:14:41.997

<Brett Willis>I'm not making me choose.

00:14:41.997 --> 00:14:45.997

<Brett Willis>So when there's two on one, it means that they're both pretty similar.

00:14:45.997 --> 00:14:57.237

<Jason Perkins>So somebody post and then a comment, it looks like, so the original post says, Fermented with Belgian yeast or dot dot dot dot question mark?

00:14:57.237 --> 00:14:59.277

<Jason Perkins>Gotta make sure I get all the dots.

00:14:59.277 --> 00:15:05.837

<Jason Perkins>And then there was somebody responded as, I hope you use the same yeast strain as for Allagash white.

00:15:05.837 --> 00:15:06.597

<Jason Perkins>I'm sorry.

00:15:07.077 --> 00:15:08.177

<Brett Willis>We already can answer that.

00:15:08.177 --> 00:15:09.677

<Brett Willis>You know, that there's a reason why.

00:15:09.677 --> 00:15:10.137

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:15:10.137 --> 00:15:12.537

<Brett Willis>So then this is the other one that falls into that category.

00:15:12.537 --> 00:15:13.877

<Jason Perkins>OMG.

00:15:13.877 --> 00:15:15.057

<Jason Perkins>Never thought I'd see the day.

00:15:16.977 --> 00:15:23.037

<Jason Perkins>But I will note that at the end of this comment is a smiley face which has two hearts for eyes.

00:15:23.037 --> 00:15:23.677

<Brett Willis>They were excited.

00:15:23.677 --> 00:15:24.357

<Brett Willis>They were excited.

00:15:24.357 --> 00:15:27.117

<Brett Willis>But I didn't want to put them purely in a, I'm happy.

00:15:27.117 --> 00:15:29.417

<Brett Willis>There is a little bit of a like, what?

00:15:29.417 --> 00:15:30.637

<Brett Willis>Aspect to that.

00:15:30.637 --> 00:15:33.937

<Liz Wilson>Which I feel is so classically Allagash.

00:15:33.937 --> 00:15:36.097

<Liz Wilson>You're just keeping you on your toes, folks.

00:15:36.097 --> 00:15:36.457

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:15:36.457 --> 00:15:37.877

<Liz Wilson>You just never know what we're doing.

00:15:37.877 --> 00:15:39.717

<Brett Willis>No, we're going to do some crazy stuff.

00:15:40.737 --> 00:15:41.077

<Liz Wilson>All right.

00:15:41.077 --> 00:15:46.697

<Brett Willis>I want to give you one from the, I just want to see what you think about this.

00:15:46.697 --> 00:15:48.597

<Brett Willis>This is a little bit more in the trepidation camp.

00:15:48.597 --> 00:15:50.657

<Jason Perkins>Can I say this person's name because it's pretty great.

00:15:50.657 --> 00:15:51.617

<Brett Willis>Yeah, you can say the name.

00:15:51.617 --> 00:15:52.337

<Brett Willis>No, that's okay.

00:15:52.337 --> 00:15:53.197

<Jason Perkins>It's on the Internet, right?

00:15:53.197 --> 00:15:54.357

<Jason Perkins>Yeah, they put it publicly.

00:15:54.357 --> 00:15:56.017

<Jason Perkins>Their name is Barley Wino.

00:15:56.017 --> 00:15:56.817

<Jason Perkins>Yeah, it's good.

00:15:56.817 --> 00:15:58.037

<Jason Perkins>That's good.

00:16:00.517 --> 00:16:04.117

<Jason Perkins>Definitely one of the Four Horsemen of the Beer Apocalypse.

00:16:05.997 --> 00:16:07.457

<Jason Perkins>I'm not even sure what to think about that.

00:16:09.337 --> 00:16:10.077

<Jason Perkins>It's dark.

00:16:10.077 --> 00:16:11.777

<Brett Willis>Yeah, it's dark, but it's funny.

00:16:11.777 --> 00:16:13.277

<Jason Perkins>We are or the beer is?

00:16:13.277 --> 00:16:14.237

<Brett Willis>I think it's the beer.

00:16:14.237 --> 00:16:19.877

<Brett Willis>The fact that it is an Allagash Hazy IPA represents to them some sort of a we've crossed the line.

00:16:19.877 --> 00:16:26.037

<Brett Willis>So it got me thinking about, is it like Cantillon Pastry Stout would be another of the Horsemen?

00:16:26.037 --> 00:16:28.937

<Liz Wilson>What are the Four Horsemen of Beer Apocalypse?

00:16:28.977 --> 00:16:30.277

<Brett Willis>Bud Light Goose?

00:16:30.277 --> 00:16:31.537

<Brett Willis>I don't know.

00:16:35.097 --> 00:16:47.017

<Jason Perkins>I kind of feel like we, no offense to Barley Wano, but I think we've already had like a thousand of the Horsemen in the Beer Apocalypse that have come forward in the last five years.

00:16:47.017 --> 00:16:49.857

<Brett Willis>All right, let's go to this one.

00:16:49.857 --> 00:16:53.177

<Brett Willis>This is purely self-serving for us on the marketing team.

00:16:53.177 --> 00:16:54.917

<Brett Willis>I had to get it in there.

00:16:54.917 --> 00:16:56.077

<Jason Perkins>Awesome label too.

00:16:57.617 --> 00:17:02.317

<Jason Perkins>I can't see all the images, but there's definitely like a flexing muscle and a fire.

00:17:02.317 --> 00:17:03.657

<Jason Perkins>Oh, a hand clap.

00:17:04.017 --> 00:17:04.637

<Jason Perkins>Nice.

00:17:04.637 --> 00:17:04.837

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:17:04.837 --> 00:17:07.317

<Jason Perkins>And then also killer label.

00:17:07.317 --> 00:17:07.777

<Jason Perkins>That's good.

00:17:07.777 --> 00:17:08.577

<Jason Perkins>I would agree.

00:17:08.577 --> 00:17:09.737

<Jason Perkins>Label turned out awesome.

00:17:09.737 --> 00:17:09.937

<Jason Perkins>Yeah.

00:17:09.937 --> 00:17:10.957

<Brett Willis>I'm really.

00:17:10.957 --> 00:17:26.497

<Brett Willis>We, I mean, so that was definitely the part that I think we agonized the most over is, how does this come to life for Allagash in a way that feels not like, it feels confident, that feels, we loved the beer, we wanted people to feel that in the branding.

00:17:26.497 --> 00:17:31.297

<Liz Wilson>So yeah, it also feels us and delivers on people's expectations.

00:17:31.297 --> 00:17:39.317

<Liz Wilson>So I think when you sort of look at the world of hazy IPAs and you look at our branding world, how do we, how do we make something?

00:17:39.317 --> 00:17:42.037

<Jason Perkins>It's a different experience on the same river.

00:17:42.037 --> 00:17:43.357

<Brett Willis>That's the way to say it.

00:17:43.357 --> 00:17:47.957

<Brett Willis>It's a little, it's a little sunsetti, maybe sunrise, probably sunset.

00:17:47.957 --> 00:17:48.917

<Brett Willis>Don't know which way we're facing.

00:17:49.837 --> 00:17:52.317

<Brett Willis>But it is, yeah, it's good.

00:17:52.317 --> 00:17:55.337

<Brett Willis>This one, this one's just, what do you think of this one?

00:17:55.337 --> 00:17:57.757

<Brett Willis>This is definitely in the trepidation camp.

00:17:59.077 --> 00:18:02.917

<Jason Perkins>Just, just Quick Kicks just says boo.

00:18:04.677 --> 00:18:06.097

<Jason Perkins>That's okay, that's okay.

00:18:06.137 --> 00:18:11.137

<Jason Perkins>A response underneath from Fred Food Philly in a beer says, oh no.

00:18:14.917 --> 00:18:16.357

<Liz Wilson>We welcome all opinions.

00:18:16.357 --> 00:18:17.037

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:18:17.037 --> 00:18:28.257

<Brett Willis>Hey, you know, I think, you know, I think I want to, this next one, which is in the similar, it's not bad, but it has the trepidation, I think gives those ones context of why people might feel that way.

00:18:28.257 --> 00:18:28.577

<Jason Perkins>Yeah.

00:18:28.577 --> 00:18:30.217

<Brett Willis>So this is actually two from the same person.

00:18:31.297 --> 00:18:32.797

<Jason Perkins>Okay.

00:18:32.797 --> 00:18:36.857

<Jason Perkins>Little Steve Scott Swag says, I'm super excited to try it.

00:18:36.857 --> 00:18:39.837

<Jason Perkins>At the same time, be sure to remember your roots.

00:18:41.077 --> 00:18:43.777

<Jason Perkins>Don't worry, we will.

00:18:43.777 --> 00:18:50.777

<Jason Perkins>The only reason to be upset would be if they started making all IPAs and added flavor stouts.

00:18:50.777 --> 00:18:52.317

<Jason Perkins>Side note, your stouts are great.

00:18:52.457 --> 00:18:54.497

<Jason Perkins>Please don't cut into that trap.

00:18:55.937 --> 00:18:57.457

<Brett Willis>Thanks, little Steve.

00:18:57.457 --> 00:18:58.837

<Brett Willis>Thanks, little Steve.

00:18:59.957 --> 00:19:03.617

<Jason Perkins>You know, I can say that that, little Steve, it's safe.

00:19:03.617 --> 00:19:04.097

<Jason Perkins>It's safe.

00:19:04.097 --> 00:19:05.597

<Jason Perkins>We're not going to make all IPAs.

00:19:05.597 --> 00:19:07.757

<Jason Perkins>We're not going to forget about our roots.

00:19:07.757 --> 00:19:09.937

<Jason Perkins>And I don't think we're making any flavored stouts.

00:19:09.937 --> 00:19:11.077

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:19:11.077 --> 00:19:12.377

<Liz Wilson>Just flavorful stouts.

00:19:12.657 --> 00:19:14.677

<Liz Wilson>I've got some pilot ideas brewing it.

00:19:14.677 --> 00:19:16.757

<Brett Willis>I mean, I put a pretty flavorful stout out there.

00:19:16.757 --> 00:19:17.757

<Brett Willis>It did not exactly work.

00:19:17.757 --> 00:19:19.857

<Brett Willis>It was a pilot idea, but it was fun to brew.

00:19:21.497 --> 00:19:21.737

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:19:21.737 --> 00:19:36.537

<Brett Willis>But that is, I feel like, at the heart of what this beer represents for so many people is that this has been the style that took so many breweries that said, we're only going to brew these classic, really just beer nerdy styles.

00:19:36.537 --> 00:19:46.757

<Brett Willis>And then they brew one hazy IPA, and that turns into their entire portfolio is these IPAs, which understandably so because it's such a popular style and it tastes really dang good.

00:19:47.417 --> 00:19:54.297

<Brett Willis>So, I think that's where this last one, I think this is, that's where this last one takes us.

00:19:55.717 --> 00:19:56.437

<Jason Perkins>Okay.

00:19:56.437 --> 00:20:02.257

<Jason Perkins>This is how breweries fund cool ship, spontaneous beers, and a whole lot of other cool shit.

00:20:02.257 --> 00:20:04.217

<Jason Perkins>And plus, I'm sure it tastes great.

00:20:04.217 --> 00:20:06.917

<Jason Perkins>So even if it's not totally your thing, go for it.

00:20:08.417 --> 00:20:09.937

<Jason Perkins>Thank you, Little Fish Brewing.

00:20:09.937 --> 00:20:10.237

<Liz Wilson>Right.

00:20:10.237 --> 00:20:15.977

<Brett Willis>Like, I would not say that's the entire reason why we brewed it, is just to fund these things.

00:20:15.977 --> 00:20:27.377

<Brett Willis>But I think we've been thinking about it a lot internally, as this is an experience people are hoping for here, and we are actually being somewhat exclusive by not providing it for the people who want it.

00:20:27.377 --> 00:20:27.837

<Liz Wilson>Yeah.

00:20:27.837 --> 00:20:32.097

<Liz Wilson>I think we hear all the time, I'll have an IPA.

00:20:32.097 --> 00:20:39.057

<Liz Wilson>And so, for many years, we didn't have an option, and we could recommend things that were maybe a little bit adjacent.

00:20:39.057 --> 00:20:45.297

<Liz Wilson>But now we can give people what they are hoping to enjoy.

00:20:45.297 --> 00:20:54.577

<Liz Wilson>And we've done that by offering wine and cider and just expanding our offerings, and it's super fun to experiment with those types of beverages.

00:20:54.577 --> 00:21:01.997

<Liz Wilson>And then I think another question, we saw a lot of, please send it to Florida and Texas and California.

00:21:02.037 --> 00:21:10.817

<Liz Wilson>Yeah, I think we're starting in the tasting room, and then we'll keep an eye on it, and I think see where we go from there.

00:21:10.817 --> 00:21:15.957

<Liz Wilson>So we'd never say never, which is maybe my favorite response to everything.

00:21:17.217 --> 00:21:23.017

<Liz Wilson>But yeah, if you're in Maine, come out and give it a try.

00:21:23.017 --> 00:21:23.937

<Brett Willis>Yeah.

00:21:23.937 --> 00:21:26.237

<Brett Willis>Anything else you're thinking, Jason?

00:21:26.237 --> 00:21:27.197

<Jason Perkins>Oh, I got a lot of thoughts.

00:21:27.857 --> 00:21:29.117

<Jason Perkins>I'm so excited.

00:21:29.117 --> 00:21:33.877

<Jason Perkins>I think it's so interesting, like so many interesting layers to all of this.

00:21:33.877 --> 00:21:49.177

<Jason Perkins>Just the haze thing alone, especially because as long as I've been here at Allagash, and some of those early years with Allagash White, where there were really no hazy beers in the marketplace.

00:21:49.177 --> 00:21:57.117

<Jason Perkins>In the first 10 years, we were in business literally, like no craft beer, no macro beer was making a hazy beer.

00:21:57.117 --> 00:22:06.657

<Jason Perkins>So when we went to a festival, when we went in to try to sell our beer into an account, it was always like a flaw to so many people.

00:22:06.657 --> 00:22:10.677

<Jason Perkins>And it took explanation of, now, this is the beer style it is.

00:22:10.677 --> 00:22:15.377

<Jason Perkins>Wit beers, Allagash White is supposed to be cloudy, here's why, and so on.

00:22:15.737 --> 00:22:25.597

<Jason Perkins>And so to fast forward to now, and there was even a period of time, which luckily I think were past, where there was almost like a race to see who could make the haziest beer out there.

00:22:25.597 --> 00:22:28.657

<Jason Perkins>It just, there's so much irony in it for me, to be honest with you.

00:22:28.657 --> 00:22:29.737

<Jason Perkins>Yeah.

00:22:29.737 --> 00:22:43.977

<Jason Perkins>But specifically, this beer style, yeah, we certainly, part of the reason we made this beer is in response, to direct response from consumers, our loyal customers who are coming to visit us and looking for that.

00:22:43.977 --> 00:22:46.217

<Jason Perkins>But honestly, it's a really amazing beer style.

00:22:46.617 --> 00:22:55.117

<Jason Perkins>And like any beer style, no matter what beer style it is, there are people who do it really badly, just sharing my opinion.

00:22:55.357 --> 00:22:56.857

<Jason Perkins>And there are people who do it really beautifully.

00:22:57.097 --> 00:23:03.997

<Jason Perkins>And when the beer style is done in a beautiful way, like it is a beer that, it's a style of beer that I personally will drink.

00:23:03.997 --> 00:23:04.517

<Jason Perkins>Yeah.

00:23:04.517 --> 00:23:10.577

<Jason Perkins>There's a lot of them out there that I won't drink, but I could say the same thing about any beer style that's ever been created, right?

00:23:11.457 --> 00:23:18.557

<Jason Perkins>There's a lot more of them, of course, because this is the number one beer style in craft beer.

00:23:18.557 --> 00:23:33.877

<Jason Perkins>But I think it's a really exciting beer style, and I think it as a way to showcase the beauty of hops and how far hops have come from the amazing farmers and breeders who have created new hop varieties, have cultivated the ones we have.

00:23:33.877 --> 00:23:42.657

<Jason Perkins>Like, I can't think of a better beer style to express that amazing work that has been done on the hop farming and breeding side.

00:23:42.657 --> 00:23:46.657

<Jason Perkins>And so for me, it's a really exciting beer style for me.

00:23:46.657 --> 00:23:49.317

<Jason Perkins>So yes, of course, we want to make what the consumers want.

00:23:49.317 --> 00:23:52.497

<Jason Perkins>But myself and the rest of the brewing team is pretty excited about it.

00:23:52.497 --> 00:23:57.417

<Jason Perkins>And there's quite a buzz around here that you said earlier that your four pack disappeared.

00:23:57.417 --> 00:23:59.997

<Jason Perkins>I've heard that from many people here.

00:23:59.997 --> 00:24:04.117

<Jason Perkins>All of their four packs disappeared when they took them home last weekend.

00:24:04.117 --> 00:24:08.497

<Jason Perkins>So we're definitely excited for the beer style, all this humor aside.

00:24:08.497 --> 00:24:09.977

<Brett Willis>Yeah, that's awesome.

00:24:09.977 --> 00:24:11.217

<Brett Willis>That's awesome.

00:24:11.217 --> 00:24:20.417

<Brett Willis>I do feel as though recently, there has been this sort of like us being able to spread our wings even further, because I know we've spread our wings a lot.

00:24:20.417 --> 00:24:26.817

<Brett Willis>And we always have, we've always innovated, but I feel like there's just been just small little changes that have happened on the brewing side.

00:24:26.817 --> 00:24:29.077

<Brett Willis>They've just been like, now we're brewing all these lagers.

00:24:29.257 --> 00:24:39.537

<Brett Willis>Now we're brewing, just these really fun things that we get to put our stamp on, the brewing team gets to put their stamp on, that are just, every time one comes along, I'm just pumped about it.

00:24:39.537 --> 00:24:45.057

<Brett Willis>It's like, oh yeah, I can't wait to see what the brewing team has to say about this particular style.

00:24:45.057 --> 00:25:02.537

<Jason Perkins>Yeah, I mean, we're super fortunate to live in a brewing world where we can work on blending our Cool Shipper Sergum on one day, and then work on a Hazy IPA recipe on the next day, and then working on the An Allagash White as beautiful as it is all the time.

00:25:02.537 --> 00:25:04.837

<Jason Perkins>So yeah, it's a pretty fun playground to be in.

00:25:04.837 --> 00:25:05.217

<Brett Willis>Totally.

00:25:05.217 --> 00:25:06.017

<Brett Willis>And ciders.

00:25:06.017 --> 00:25:14.157

<Brett Willis>And you mentioned ciders and wines, Liz, but I feel like those two have been just blown my mind with how good those have been and how dry and complex.

00:25:14.157 --> 00:25:20.817

<Brett Willis>And it's just been really fun as a Allagash fan internally to just get to try this stuff.

00:25:20.817 --> 00:25:21.537

<Brett Willis>It's so good.

00:25:21.537 --> 00:25:27.177

<Liz Wilson>There's like no greater joy than when Patrick comes in with a drink in hand, and he's like, try this out.

00:25:27.737 --> 00:25:32.917

<Liz Wilson>And it's like Patrick's mad experiment, something that is just unbelievably good.

00:25:32.917 --> 00:25:35.737

<Liz Wilson>And you're like, yes, please make that.

00:25:35.737 --> 00:25:47.477

<Brett Willis>Oh, we had, I mean, as an anecdote, we had some guests from the National Black Brewers Association, and they tried one of our pilot beers, which was a Porter, which was just a pilot beer.

00:25:47.477 --> 00:25:51.237

<Brett Willis>And I liked it, but they were blown away by how good it was as a Porter.

00:25:51.237 --> 00:25:55.897

<Brett Willis>And I feel that was super gratifying, too, where it's like, yes, these experiments that we're doing are also good.

00:25:57.337 --> 00:26:01.577

<Brett Willis>And I don't know, that was maybe a highlight for me of the trip of how much they liked that Porter.

00:26:01.577 --> 00:26:02.977

<Brett Willis>So it was cool.

00:26:02.977 --> 00:26:04.097

<Brett Willis>Good.

00:26:04.097 --> 00:26:05.997

<Jason Perkins>Exciting.

00:26:05.997 --> 00:26:06.917

<Liz Wilson>All right.

00:26:06.917 --> 00:26:07.937

<Liz Wilson>That's Hazy IPA.

00:26:07.937 --> 00:26:09.357

<Brett Willis>That's Hazy IPA.

00:26:09.357 --> 00:26:12.297

<Brett Willis>Come by and try it or just wait.

00:26:12.297 --> 00:26:14.577

<Brett Willis>And it might show up near you in the future.

00:26:14.577 --> 00:26:15.877

<Brett Willis>We'll see.

00:26:15.877 --> 00:26:16.157

<Brett Willis>All right.

00:26:16.157 --> 00:26:17.077

<Brett Willis>Thanks, Jason.

00:26:17.077 --> 00:26:17.577

<Jason Perkins>Thank you all.